Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id PAA04048 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:12:01 GMT Message-ID: <001f01c08ec1$8ce93560$6708bed4@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <20010121193405.AAA28882@camailp.harvard.edu@[204.96.32.176]> Subject: Re: phenotypic plasticity and ontogeny Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 16:17:40 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Hi all,
Same argument to boost in again, checkin' out my posts...
Are organs of expression of the male part kinda a stamen or penis and the
organs or reception kinda female and pistil or vagina...!?
Are we talking here once again over the possibility that there is a gender
bias for memes !?
Last time we talked about this we almost marched to war...is the time ripe
for a second trial...!?
Kenneth
( I am, because we are) at 162
----- Original Message -----
From: Wade T.Smith <wade_smith@harvard.edu>
To: Memetics Discussion List <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: phenotypic plasticity and ontogeny
> Hi Joe E. Dees --
>
> >Meme as sperm, ayy? That's why I highlighted disSEMINate.
>
> And I was and am totally aware of that.
>
> >But
> >I was speaking of the roles of propagator and recipient; clearly
> >there is a yang/yin complementarity there.
>
> Yup, as there has to be, if we accept male as meaning 'giver' and female
> as meaning 'taker'. Part of nature.
>
> >However, as regards
> >the meme, what's IN sperm? Why, GENES, of course.
>
> Here I did not make myself clear. Yes, there is a component of 'me' (or
> of you, or whoever) that I want to get into you, in a memetic sense. That
> it is there, however, is not a memetic happenstance at all. But I need a
> way to get it to you. In most natures, straight imitation and genetic
> development can lead to instructional learning- I can show you how to do
> something. That's basic, and cascades down several species levels. But, I
> need a special and unique carrier to present, offer, and have you accept
> and contain an idea of mine, and that _carrier_ is what I'm calling the
> meme, not the idea- not the sperm, if you will, at all. The 'sperm' is a
> naturally occuring artifact of mind- we are the most creative animal.
> But, to get that artifact transferred to you, I have need of much more
> than just the map of it that language or natural behavior might
> communicate.
>
> (Of course, some carriers function and others do not, or some are better
> than others, or some are directed at specific targets, or some run smack
> dab into barriers, etc.)
>
> I need an additional cultural tool, which, for me at the moment, is all
> the meme needs to be, since I see no need to introduce that component at
> any other function of communication or imitation or imagined culture or
> creation, e.g. at the level of birdsong, which can (and does, IMHO) get
> along and on its way just fine without memes. If a bird used a flute to
> transmit its song, that would be memetic. But it doesn't....
>
> So, no, in quite disquieting fact, I'm much more looking at the meme as
> the penis, not the sperm.
>
> Which means, yes, I'm quite definitely moving away, not only from any
> desire to find a neural meme, but from any need for a neural meme at all.
>
> And once again, I'm knocking at the doors of perception and aesthetics,
> which is where I started, which is where this thing called memetics
> seemed to want to fit, somewhere between Aristotle and McLuhan.
>
> But, I'm used to being called a putz....
>
> - Wade
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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