Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id TAA13086 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:38:37 GMT Subject: Re: phenotypic plasticity and ontogeny Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 14:35:49 -0500 x-sender: wsmith1@camail2.harvard.edu x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, Claritas Est Veritas From: "Wade T.Smith" <wade_smith@harvard.edu> To: "Memetics Discussion List" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Message-ID: <20010121193405.AAA28882@camailp.harvard.edu@[204.96.32.176]> Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Hi Joe E. Dees --
>Meme as sperm, ayy? That's why I highlighted disSEMINate.
And I was and am totally aware of that.
>But
>I was speaking of the roles of propagator and recipient; clearly
>there is a yang/yin complementarity there.
Yup, as there has to be, if we accept male as meaning 'giver' and female
as meaning 'taker'. Part of nature.
>However, as regards
>the meme, what's IN sperm? Why, GENES, of course.
Here I did not make myself clear. Yes, there is a component of 'me' (or
of you, or whoever) that I want to get into you, in a memetic sense. That
it is there, however, is not a memetic happenstance at all. But I need a
way to get it to you. In most natures, straight imitation and genetic
development can lead to instructional learning- I can show you how to do
something. That's basic, and cascades down several species levels. But, I
need a special and unique carrier to present, offer, and have you accept
and contain an idea of mine, and that _carrier_ is what I'm calling the
meme, not the idea- not the sperm, if you will, at all. The 'sperm' is a
naturally occuring artifact of mind- we are the most creative animal.
But, to get that artifact transferred to you, I have need of much more
than just the map of it that language or natural behavior might
communicate.
(Of course, some carriers function and others do not, or some are better
than others, or some are directed at specific targets, or some run smack
dab into barriers, etc.)
I need an additional cultural tool, which, for me at the moment, is all
the meme needs to be, since I see no need to introduce that component at
any other function of communication or imitation or imagined culture or
creation, e.g. at the level of birdsong, which can (and does, IMHO) get
along and on its way just fine without memes. If a bird used a flute to
transmit its song, that would be memetic. But it doesn't....
So, no, in quite disquieting fact, I'm much more looking at the meme as
the penis, not the sperm.
Which means, yes, I'm quite definitely moving away, not only from any
desire to find a neural meme, but from any need for a neural meme at all.
And once again, I'm knocking at the doors of perception and aesthetics,
which is where I started, which is where this thing called memetics
seemed to want to fit, somewhere between Aristotle and McLuhan.
But, I'm used to being called a putz....
- Wade
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