Re: memes and emotions

From: Ray Recchia (rrecchia@mail.clarityconnect.com)
Date: Fri Feb 02 2001 - 23:57:20 GMT

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    To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    From: Ray Recchia <rrecchia@mail.clarityconnect.com>
    Subject: Re: memes and emotions
    Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:57:20 -0500
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    In "The Selfish Gene" Dawkins speaks of memes and memeticly based systems
    arising from a role as tools of geneticly evolving organisms in the same way
    that Cairns-Smith speculated that Ribonucleic acids arose as tools of
    evolving clay crystals. Eventually, so the theory goes, ribonucleic acids
    became independant evolvers and left the clay crystals behind. Certainly
    the implication was present in Dawkin's work that at some point memes might
    come to be independant of genes.

    Up until the last century genetic systems exerted more control over memetic
    systems than the reverse. Edward O. Wilson wrote of a "leash" on which
    genes must keep memes. Genetic evolution will favor organisms that produce
    memes that enhance the production of genes. If memes arise that disfavor
    genetic reproduction, genetic evolution will give rise to organisms that
    have propensities against producing them.

    With the advent of genetic engineering the "leash" that E.O. Wilson spoke of
    has almost certainly been broken. When the design of genes can be thought up
    and manifest themselves as memes, then genes become the byproduct of memes.

    Viewed in this fashion, the emergence of genetic engineering marks an
    evolutionary turning point, as significant if not more than the emergence of
    aerobic respiration or the sudden diversity of life during the Cambrian
    explosion.

    (more at the bottom)

    Scott Chase wrote:

    >
    >
    >
    >
    > >From: Ray Recchia <rrecchia@mail.clarityconnect.com>
    > >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    > >To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    > >Subject: Re: Memes and emotions
    > >Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 01:43:58 -0500
    > >
    > >When I was a child I was taught that there were 5 taxonomic kingdoms -
    > >bacteria,protozoa,plants,animals and fungi. Later, they decided they
    > >decided certain organisms put in the same category as bacteria were
    > much
    > >different than their relatives, so they added another layer and we
    > ended up
    > >with Domains of Eucarya, Bacteria, and Archaea. With memes, I wonder
    > >whether we can add yet another layer of living organism on top of
    > Domains -
    > >call it the Empires of Memes and Genes.
    > >
    > Yipes. I wouldn't support the idea of "memes" as living organisms and I
    > hardly think they deserve their own taxonomic designation.
    > >
    > >I like to think of humans as genetic organisms in symbiosis with
    > memetic
    > >organisms much like our ancestor protozoans that became the host for
    > >mitochondrial bacteria.
    > >
    > Well, at least mitochondria are tangible.
    >
    > I don't see much of a chasm between humans and other apes (other chimps
    > even- sensu Jared Diamond??). Mayr (in _This is Biology_) contrasts
    > Diamond's "third chimp" view with that of Julian Huxley who erected a
    > separate kingdom for humans called Psychozoa. Maybe you might call your
    > memetic organisms "psychozoans".
    >

    I think that it's been gone over before but it seems clear that human
    language and the symbol manipulation human language allows us make us a much
    more viable environment for the evolution of memes. While geneticly we are
    very close to other primates, the few differences in our minds create a vast
    gap which visibly manifests itself in the overwhelming impact we have had
    upon the global environment in the last 10,000 years.

    I think psychozoans is cute but perhaps would be a bit inaccurate. An
    organism is a collection of genes that reproduce as a unit simultaneously.
    In memetic reproduction the complementary memes in a memeplexe need not be
    reproduced all at once.

    Raymond O. Recchia

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