Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id OAA20912 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:18:06 GMT Message-Id: <200101231415.JAA18772@mail3.lig.bellsouth.net> From: "Joe E. Dees" <joedees@bellsouth.net> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:21:14 -0600 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: ....and the beat goes on and on and on... In-reply-to: <LPBBICPHCJJBPJGHGMCIGEBFCNAA.ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> References: <200101231256.HAA07328@mail1.lig.bellsouth.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
From: "Chris Lofting" <ddiamond@ozemail.com.au>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: ....and the beat goes on and on and on...
Date sent: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:07:25 +1100
Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> > Of Joe E. Dees
> > Sent: Tuesday, 23 January 2001 11:57
> > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > Subject: RE: ....and the beat goes on and on and on...
> >
> >
> > From: "Chris Lofting" <ddiamond@ozemail.com.au>
> > To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> > Subject: RE: ....and the beat goes on and on and on...
> > Date sent: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:32:21 +1100
> > Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk
> > [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> > > > Of William Benzon
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 23 January 2001 4:40
> > > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > Subject: Re: ....and the beat goes on and on and on...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > on 1/22/01 9:27 AM, Wade T.Smith at wade_smith@harvard.edu wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 01/22/01 08:08, Joe E. Dees said this-
> > > > >
> > > > >> I was
> > > > >> correct when I branded you as an unthinking zombic memebot of
> > > > >> the lowest order, in cognitive thrall to pernicious error.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hell, nobody's perfect.
> > > > >
> > > > > IMHO, Chris is an (archetypal) astrologer, and everything
> > he says will
> > > > > work in the proper context and setting, there being a very
> > nice mix of
> > > > > generality and specificity to all of it.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm willing to enjoy what I see probable about it all.
> > > > >
> > > > > But, in the wider cases of Theories of Everything, how many
> > wrongs do
> > > > > make a right?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Such theories come in two flavors: Those that achieve generality
> > > > by ignoring
> > > > details and those that achieve it by paying close attention to novel
> > > > patterns of detail. The former are worthless, the latter are valuable.
> > > >
> > >
> > > damn right. The problem is that once you have been through the
> > detail it is
> > > hard to communicate to those who have not or dont want to.
> > >
> > > Imagine the 'problem' for Joe when he realises (if ever) how it is that
> > > Astrology is believed at a base level since it develops from fundamental
> > > metaphorcations of fundamental meanings. It is a metaphor and a
> > good one in
> > > that it is founded on dichotomisation, as is maths, physics etc
> > etc Problems
> > > arise when these disciplines are taken too literally; pure
> > mathematics can
> > > relate to total illusion but it is 'respected'. Astrology can
> > relate to REAL
> > > social processes but because the literal-minded cannot identify
> > the metaphor
> > > so it is 'rubbished'.
> > >
> > Idiot. Astrology is embraced, as is racism, sexism, ageism or
> > homophobia, because it is a short-circuit way to respond to
> > situations, a heuristic, or rule-of-thumb, that allows one to react
> > without the annoying necessity of thought, much as Chris
> > embraces ultra-reductionistic binary simplisms as the exclusive be-
> > all and end-all of everything, and ignores logic and examples that
> > refute such a nonview. It doesn't work worth a flip, but it IS
> > efficient. All you have to do is pigeonhole people into categories
> > based upon complexion or birthdate or gender or gender orientation
> > or age, and you don't have to go through the difficulty of considering
> > and responding to them as individuals. The constellational
> > correlations of astrology were set down more than 3000 years ago;
> > we have advanced two constellational "houses" since then, but the
> > correlative modifications have not been made in the astrological
> > dogma. That would require thought, and the acknowledgement that
> > the earth perspective on the sky changes with time.
>
> you are incapable of 'getting it' arent you. Above is expression
> biased-packed with totally useless information, as if you are trying to
> express you knowledge of it. If that is the case then you knowledge is at
> best 'feeble'.
>
> >From the template context, the point I make is the VALUE THAT PEOPLE GET
> FROM IT UNCONSCIOUSLY. IOW they can 'feel' the 'truth' of it despite your
> attacks and that feeling fuels their defences. the SOURCE of those feelings
> is in the underlying links to the template patterns; the words are part of
> the lexicon of terms tied to the discipline. The discipline is a
> particularisation used to describe persona types using associations with the
> heavens as a link. Metaphor was then taken literally. The words, the MANY
> words, arbitrary selection, point to generally INVARIANT feelings. it is
> these FEELINGS that 'resonate'; give us the sense of meaning.
>
> IOW the logic element expresses itself, i.e. dont care what P and Q are but
> if 'if P then Q' then 'ok'. The problems come in the TESTING of the model
> and that is where it has problems when taken literally. Much of Astrology is
> used purely for socialisation. People go to see the Astrologer for a bit of
> a talk using rich symbolisms; metaphors etc. A world you are obviously out
> of touch with.
>
> You interpretation of Astrology is fundamentally incorrect in that, as I
> have repeatedly stated, if taken literally,(as you do with obviously no
> indepth analysis of it), and that included birthtimes etc then it is
> meaningless in a 'scientific' context. BUT when taken as a typology so you
> will find 'Cancer' personalities even though they are born in 'Aries'. The
> PERSONA distinctions are workable. You Idiot. (Gauquilin's work was
> interesting though. Links to development processes being influenced by
> gravitational/EM influences such that the resulting 'twists and turns' in
> organic development influence persona expression! However I recall his
> statistics had 'problems' (?)).
>
As I said before, you're a zombic memebot in thrall to error. Your
particular viral infection is not as common as are most, but, just
like the more common ones, it perpetuates itself by filtering
incoming data and subliminalizing that which conflicts with or
contradicts it. Thus, a racist will not be able to ever see proof that
racism doesn't work, and you will never be able to see proof that
there is more to the world than dyads and recursion. That is the
nature of your thrall; that you are impermeable to any logic and
evidence that give your master memetic infection difficulties. You
are self-brainwashed, and have invested your self-worth, self-
esteem and very self-concept in the validity and soundness of your
personal affliction. It cannot be wrong, because it must not be, or
else... well, you are constitutionally unanle to conceive of an 'or
else'. Just like a newage fluffybunny astrology acolyte, you 'feel it
in your bones', and it's dissociation from factual reality as perceived
registers not one whit with you or memebots of your fervent
zealous fanatical ilk, nor can you allow it to. Nimrod.
>
> Chris.
> ------------------
> Chris Lofting
> websites:
> http://www.eisa.net.au/~lofting
> http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ddiamond
> List Owner: http://www.egroups.com/group/semiosis
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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