Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id NAA04796 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:20:47 GMT Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:51:53 +0000 To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: DNA Culture .... Trivia? Message-ID: <20010119125153.B1745@reborntechnology.co.uk> References: <200101182005.PAA02168@mail4.lig.bellsouth.net>; <20010119104109.E509@reborntechnology.co.uk> <200101191157.GAA03604@mail3.lig.bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i In-Reply-To: <200101191157.GAA03604@mail3.lig.bellsouth.net>; from joedees@bellsouth.net on Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 05:40:42AM -0600 From: Robin Faichney <robin@reborntechnology.co.uk> Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 05:40:42AM -0600, Joe E. Dees wrote:
> >
> It's gratifying to see that you are coming to see the light that
> eastern sages saw long before you; that when they said that the
> self was nothing, they meant no-thing, i.e. not a fixed and static
> being or thing, like a rock or a tree, but rather a dynamically and
> complexly recursive becoming.
I'm glad you're coming around to the realization that the self is not
a concrete thing.
> > > > > There should be no confusion between the molecular
> > > > > significance we can grant to the structure of a material (or an
> > > > > energy) and the communicational significance we impose upon
> > > > > certain configurations or patterns of one substance or another.
> > > > > There isn't with me.
> > > >
> > > > Nor with me. Why do you think there is?
> > > >
> > > The answer was in reference to the second quote, which you
> > > snipped, about the difference between the information contained in
> > > the writing on the paper and the information contained in the
> > > structure of the paper, which Dennett urged his colleagues not to
> > > consider at that time.
> >
> > Why do you think that to consider the relationship between these two
> > types of information is to confuse them?
> >
> I'm glad to hear you don't. They also are not the same type of
> information...
That's what I said. Just there, and many times before.
> > > Mind is composed of matter/energy configured in sufficiently
> > > complex, dynamic and recursive patterns to permit it to breach the
> > > Godelian barrier and impose meaning. There; I've done it for you.
> >
> > I'm sorry. Maybe I'm too stupid to understand, but I'm sure someone
> > around would benefit, if you just say a little more about how that
> > statement proves correct the supposition "that some concept of
> > _information_ could serve eventually to unify mind, matter, and meaning
> > in a single theory."
> >
> What is critical is the complexity of the patterning of the
> matter/energy substrate; when the number of components and their
> interconnections achieve sufficient interrelational complexity to
> permit self-reference, mind emerges. A sufficient quantity does
> lead to the emergence of new qualities. A single grain of sand, or
> ten, possesses no tipping plane, but millions of grains in a pile will
> form an angle from the horizontal of no more than 43 1/2 degrees
> (the angle of the pyramids, BTW). If more sand is added to the
> top, avalanches widen the base to re-establish the angle. This
> property is only possessed by a sufficiently large aggregate. Mind
> is like that. A single neuron cannot be self-aware, or a million of
> them apparently, but equally apparently three trillion of them can
> be and are in each human case (except perhaps in Chris Lofting's
> :).
It's nice to know you have an interest in the pyramids, Joe. But how
does the foregoing prove (or disprove) "that some concept of _information_
could serve eventually to unify mind, matter, and meaning in a single
theory?"
-- Robin Faichney robin@reborntechnology.co.uk=============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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