Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id MAA19957 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:49:21 GMT Message-Id: <200101161246.HAA13115@mail3.lig.bellsouth.net> From: "Joe E. Dees" <joedees@bellsouth.net> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 06:52:29 -0600 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: DNA Culture .... Trivia? In-reply-to: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745BD5@inchna.stir.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk>
To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: DNA Culture .... Trivia?
Date sent: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:42:33 -0000
Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >There are at least three camps; the G memers (memes only
> > BETWEEN minds, in the world), the L memers (memes only
> > WITHIN minds), and the camp to whicch I belong, the G + L
> > memers (the life cycle of a meme involves both endocognitive and
> > exocognitive stages). For members of the third camp, it is as
> > impossible to understand how a meme could get mutated or
> > selected between minds as it is to see how it could get replicated
> > within one, and all of these are required for memes to evolve.>
> >
> Just one quick comment here on this point. Memes can get selected
> between minds if they fool our generally indequate perceptions. So you
> people watch someone perform a rain dance, it starts to rain, they make the
> false connection between the dance and it raining. Next time you need rain,
> you consider trying the dance out yourself. You do it, it doesn't work- and
> you assume you didn't do the dance right. Lots and lots and lots of people
> have similar personal habits and superstitions, e.g. sports stars that wear
> 'lucky' pants/shoes etc. One my mum persists with if that if you drop a
> knife on the floor, someone else must pick it up- she doesn't know why
> (other than it's bad luck). But I can see that if you said 'Oh that's
> stupid!' and cut yourself whilst picking up the knife that false association
> would persist (similarly with walking under ladders being bad luck).
>
Of course memes are not always selected on the basis of valid
criteria or reasoning - in fact, they frequently are not. The particular
invalid assumption you point to is known as the post hoc ergo
propter hoc (after, therefore because of) fallacy.
>
> (I think I've mentioned before Blackmore's earlier work on
> probability misjudgement in this kind of context).
>
> This can happen in other ways too, not only through mis-perception,
> but in relation to our desire to improve (or even just maintain) our
> position in the social hierarchy. Doesn't Blackmore in her book give the
> idea that we copy those who are successful, and with that details irrelevant
> to that person's success may be copied? e.g. a successful hunter who has
> high social status happens to use red arrowflights, so as well as trying to
> copy his hunting techniques, people copy other bits, like his red arrows.
> Further, copying his red arrows, and his dress, maybe be a lot easier, take
> a lot less effort, and may work as easily to improve the imitator's social
> status, thus "mutation" may occur.
>
His dress is one memetic component, his red arrows another, his
hunting techniques a third. They may together form a memeplex,
but the individual memes comprising such a conglomerate may be
adopted outside of it without having undergone any mutation, just
separation from a prior context and installation in a new one.
>
> IMHO it's an idea that potentially prevents g-memes having no way to
> spread.
>
G-memes are those between minds, and L-memes are the stage
within minds, so g-memes are spread through any communicative
behavior, be it showing, telling, or writing. It's still the mind of the
recipient that decides whether to accept or reject a presented
meme. This may happen intentionally or inadvertently, but any
meme that only exists in one mind and can never successfully
pass between minds will never find a causal way to exist in two.
>
> Vincent
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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