Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id RAA05035 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:46:42 GMT Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010111105525.01c97a40@pop3.htcomp.net> X-Sender: mmills@pop3.htcomp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:41:50 -0600 To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk From: Mark Mills <mmills@htcomp.net> Subject: RE: DNA Culture .... Trivia? In-Reply-To: <A4400389479FD3118C9400508B0FF230010D1A12@DELTA.newhouse.ak zonobel.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Derek,
Rather than do extended quoting, I'll summarize the points of importance
from your previous post.
First, I'll note that you vigorously dispute any attempt to use the
neural-meme paradigm. As you point out about 2/3's of the way through your
post, one of two advantages of the substrate-free-meme is it saves various
scientists from "spending the rest of our lives looking for neural memes
that don't exist."
In reply, I'll only say I continue to find the neural-meme paradigm of
great interest.
Second, you make a case for the substrate-free-meme. It consists of two
advantages. The first, I've mentioned above. It saves time by ignoring
what might be a dead end. Second, it "integrates memetics into the
mainstream of the social science."
In reply, these seem very weak arguments. If the first was followed, 'save
time,' very little new science would be produced. As to the second, I see
little interest in 'integrating' memetics' from the social sciences. As
Bill Benzon points out, one can't earn respect from social sciences by
twisting word definitions without adding insights.
Third, your comment about a one to one relationship between neural meme
and a behavior misunderstands the paradigm. To quote your post: "There's
absolutely no reason to assume a '1 behavior = 1 brainpattern model.'
The '1 to 1' relationship is not a requirement of genetics, or by analogy
neural memetics. If we look at the way the term 'gene' is used, we have
DNA defined genes and population defined genes. The first has a specific
chemical sequence, the second remains physically undescribed, being a
statistical reality. We generally describe the DNA defined gene as having
a one to one relationship with a specific product, but the strict 1 to 1 is
not always the case. DNA is not a series of genes strung together like
beads on a string. Everyone agrees the 'population defined gene' defines a
variety of DNA sequences which produce some phenotypic isomorphism
(arbitrarily set for research purposes). Thus, in genetics, there is no
hard and fast '1 chemical product to 1 DNA pattern' rule. Instead we have
a 'many to one' relationship, with only the simplest organic molecules
approaching a '1 product to 1 DNA sequence' relationship.
The same logic can be applied to neural topology. There is no reason to
expect any 'one to one' relationship between neural topology and
behavior. Only at the most fundamental levels will any one to one
relationships between neural topology and behavior be found. Just as in
genetics, these fundamental behaviors ought to be building blocks for
macroscopic phenotypes such as 'left handedness' or saying 'hello.' These
macroscopic behaviors will be very difficult to define topologically, just
as 'tendency to cancer' is very difficult to define topologically on DNA.
As to 'fundamental behaviors' with something approximating a 1 to 1
relationship between neural topology and behavior, one would expect these
to be the intercellular behaviors, perhaps the replication of a signal by
cell A from cell B to cell C.
To summarize, an objection to neural memes because it would be impossible
to find '1 behavior to 1 brainpattern' misinterprets the model. The 1 to 1
rule is not implied, nor a necessity demanded by the genetic analogy.
Mark
http://www.htcomp.net/markmills
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