Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id RAA00756 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:09:13 GMT Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745BB7@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: DNA Culture .... Trivia? Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:07:41 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
<And that's a major problem with you memeticists. You talk about
things
> where there is an existing literature -- such as the emergence of
> monotheism
> -- but you don't bother read any of that literature. You assume that you
> already know the truth -- that the memes did it -- and so there's no point
> in reading anything that anyone else has done.>
>
Thanks William, a few points in response:
1) Personally speaking, I'm a media sociologist, not a memeticist. I'm
interested in memetics, but haven't published anything on it, nor have I
conducted any specific research project in memetics, which I think would be
required to meet that description. Apart from a few exceptions, I doubt
many contributors would explicitly call themselves memeticists.
2) It is impossible to be innately aware of all the existing literature on
all subjects that may relate to the issues that converge around the concerns
of memetics. I appreciate any recommendations of literature that deals with
particular concerns that our discussions raise, and have greatly benefitted
already from such recommendations, and I hope will continue to do so. I do
bother to read what I can of those recommendations, in fact I spend more
time reading things recommended off this list than of stuff I should be
reading for my own teaching and research. I'd like to get that cd-rom book
that you recommended, but my funds are pretty low at the moment (I've bought
a fair few books lately- some of them even to do with the book I'm writing
on journalism). If anyone has a CD-rewriter and wants to post me a copy
though, I'd appreciate it :-)!
3) I too have said that sometimes writers on memetics talk about subjects
that are well discussed in fields which they seem unaware of (my own hobby
horse is media/communication studies which seems relevant to the information
transmission side of memetics but isn't really referenced by the core work-
thus far), but such authors are already crossing many disciplinary divides
in writing as they do, and I commend rather than condemn them for doing so,
because it shows willing to move beyond their own habitus' (habiti?), which
is essential in the long run.
4) There is also the issue of whether or not previous research actually does
address the issues being discussed in the terms being used by memetics.
Previous theories generally either misuse evolutionary theory in crude
deterministic ways or offer varying degrees of cultural relativism neither
of which really gets us anywhere (sweeping generalisations I know, but I'm
trying to be succinct). Memetics may cover previous ground but from a new
perspective- that may turn out to be rubbish or revolutionary, only the
evidence will eventually tell.
5) Finally, in this listserv people are thinking out loud and discussing
ideas on the hoof, not offering the results of years of research (either in
the field or in the library). When people_publish_things that equally look
like on the hoof opinion-making, then I'd agree with you completely, but
it's not a valid criticism of a listserv.
Vincent
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