Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id UAA18167 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 20 Dec 2000 20:24:42 GMT Message-ID: <000901c06ac7$5626e680$6206bed4@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <A4400389479FD3118C9400508B0FF2300411A8@DELTA.newhouse.akzonobel.nl> Subject: Re: Who knew genes could get mean? Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:55:52 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: Gatherer, D. (Derek) <D.Gatherer@organon.nhe.akzonobel.nl>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 8:47 AM
Subject: RE: Who knew genes could get mean?
Hi Derek,
Culture influences a gene's expression in the way it interacts with the
environ-
ment_that is, IMO genes for specific characteristics are expressed
differently
over time, that is due IMO again, to differences on a memetical level.
Like I said, by the way I am not a biologist, I think the genepool is in
some
extend ' linked/ connected ' with the memepool ( or our parents, culture,
race,
gender- pool.) Genes ' take ' additional/ associated info with them along
the
DNA- sequence.
How, I do not know. And I agree that the main influence on the expression of
a gene are other genes, but again in that respect WITH the (an) additional
( memetic (?)) info/ factor.
If the info/ factor is, would, should be memetic, is open to discussion,
like
I mentioned.
IMO, I do think that memetic factors have some activity on genes.
All can be described back on the environment, I think I can agree on that,
but somehow that influence has to be re- written in the gene.
IMO, the cultural differences we see today, and also about the speed of
cultural changes, I agree can be explained totally in memetic terms, but the
inheritance of those changes can 't be described along the way of natural
selection, but the next generation do possess those characteristics/
changes_
they are then already gene- written ( something what can ' t be because the
natural selection is too slow).
Here, you need IMO (memetic(?)) influence to change the gene expression
slightly, but just enough to see/ experience the change.
And I do think we ' inherit ' memes from our parents.
We ( the parents) do not see them at work in our babies and the baby does
not act along them, because memes of survival, feeding, protection, comfort
etc are stronger ( as a memeplex) than memes of manisfesting itself as a
cul-
tural entity.
This implicates, I know and do relaise that, a hierarchy of the memes.
First, the most important, is survival ( unconscient), than the first signs
of
imitation, replication ( playing), then the first words ( language) ( here
we
begin to form our cultural identity), later school, here we start to learn
to be
a specific cultural entity of a culture and so on...
The gene will express itself according to its contents.
That is, along its own inbedded characteristics, that info can IMO be des-
cribed as memetic, moreover_ can be described as pre- memetic- rules.
Take for example the gene for blue eyes.
How we as society/ culture see people with blue eyes can, I suppose be
described genetical. But not entirely !!
How you and I see people with blue eyes in quit different.
Do we have a gene for that ?
Probably, but it would not be the same. How we express that difference is
and
I agree ( can) be due to differences in/ from society/ culture where we both
live in. But is our culture that different !? Is that the whole story ?
I do not think so. The time needed to affect our genes to differs is too
short.
There has to be something else.
IMO, the gene which will make up our blue eyes do ' possess ' additional
info to how to react in/ to society/ culture.
On the other hand, the gene does also have additional info how to bahave
as " a person with blue eyes ".
I agree that can be explained in a genetical way, other genes have influence
and that influence can be traced back upon society/ culture/ the
environment, but
that influence in not genetical, but in essence memetical.
IMO, each gene of our body do possess an additional ( phenotypic) info/
factor by which it will express itself in/ by society/ culture.
That info is cultural/ social influenced but is at its bias memetical in
origin.
And that is due to our parents by which we inherited those specific charac-
teristics.
By the way, we are now so far evolved that IMO memes always inflict more
info than the memes can express itself.
Take the meme, Killroy was here...
If we hear those words, thousands of ideas and thoughts are running thru' my
brain, like who is Killroy etc...
IMO, that info we can inherit from our parents....it is not something
cultural.
Hope this helps....
Best regards,
Kenneth
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