Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id LAA04444 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:48:04 GMT Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745B01@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: addendum to mysticism etc. Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:45:54 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
I see there's been a rash of postings over the weekend. I'll give
my response to this before checking the other posts, so apologies if this
overlaps with what others say.
>You think other people need to do something about the problem, not
you. Huh.
>Maybe everyone else feels the same way.
No, I think collective action from entire nations is required e.g. how about
the USA honouring its requirements to reduce pollution levels, or pay up its
share to the UN? That's not something an individual can do, save through
the ballot box perhaps.
>I don't get your point here. I was expecting you to argue that
feeling good
>is harmful but you didn't.
Feeling good isn't inherently bad, what matters is the reasons for feeling
good, some of which can have bad consequences (e.g. racism can make people
feel good about themselves but has negative consequences for others).
>They are not evident to me. In all my time at Microsoft we would
kill for
>minority and female applicants but there was always a shortage.
Homosexuals
>have a much higher average income than heterosexuals in the US
(172% was the
>last figure I saw). Blacks dominate the extremely high-paying
positions in
>professional sports. We have had race- and sex-blind admissions to
colleges
>for decades. You must realize that there is not universal agreement
about
>your "barriers" and you cannot conclude causality from statistical
>correlations.
I can't believe you're genuinely making this argument. Women in the US, and
UK, and probably many other developed nations earn on average 3/4 the wages
that men do for the same work. Do your figures for homosexual wages
distinguish between gay men and lesbians? Professional sports are a
notoriously bad example of so-called 'equality' for ethnic minorities, not
least in relation to the ethnic devides in sport e.g. how come the majority
of ice hockey players are white and the majority of basketball players are
black? High wages doesn't stop black sports stars suffering from racist
abuse- as recent examples in football in the UK, Italy and elsewhere would
attest. How many african american, or hispanic american politicians are
there in Congress? Explain why the highest rates of premature death occur
amongst ethnic minorities. Explain US prison populations disproportionately
consisting of ethnic minorities. We could broaden this out- what about the
way that major US companies use sweatshop labour to produce goods (including
Nike, Gap and Disney)?
The USA, like many other societies is profoundly inequitable in all sorts of
areas of life. I'm afraid Richard this was exactly my point- happiness
often comes through the denial of social reality.
>There are plenty of people who would argue that you can beat the
house at
>roulette by following betting systems. People who are personally
accountable
>for the results in their own lives are more successful than people
who look
>at themselves as victims, regardless of the reality of the
situation.
That's exactly my point- the results of one's own life is not solely
accountable to oneself. There is no choice is being born into a group that
society mis-treats, whether that's in terms of gender, ethnicity, religion,
sexuality, or whatever. Being any, or all of these things, means society
shapes what you can or can't achieve. That doesn't one can't struggle
against the system and achieve things that help to change it, but it does
make it far more difficult.
>As Jesus said, there will always be poor. Help them if you want to,
but the
>fact of their existence does not lessen the importance of the lives
of the
>rest.
It does if the rest makes themselves happy by ignoring the plight of the
poor, or blaming their status on the inadequacies of the poor, rather than
recognising their role in the maintenance of the poor. The idea that there
will always be poor people is a product of liberal capitalist ideology, and
helps to make us feel less bad about it.
>Memes spread for many reasons. We tend to pay attention to "crisis"
memes.
>We believe ideas that fit easily into our existing mindset. We
trust our
>authorities. We believe memes that get repeated several times,
especially
>from multiple sources. "Truth" is not a strong selector for memes.
That may be true for audiences, but what about the producers of media
content? Why are they so persistent in misrepresenting risk to the public?
Vincent
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