Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id XAA03651 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:07:25 +0100 Message-Id: <200010272201.SAA23770@mail4.lig.bellsouth.net> From: "Joe E. Dees" <joedees@bellsouth.net> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:06:12 -0500 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Defining and moving on In-reply-to: <000a01c03edf$c3b63020$25d910ac@oemcomputer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Date sent: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:59:36 +1300
From: Brent Silby <phil066@it.canterbury.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: Defining and moving on
To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> The problem, as I see it, is that many people are running their own private research projects in memetics. Because there is no standard terminology, people produce papers using their own terms. The problem is that when people read these papers, they encounter words that they might have read
elsewhere, but with different meanings. This, obviously, leads to a lot of confusion.
>
> I think it is good idea to build a list of terms. This should help to clear up some of the cross talk that occurs here.
>
> Tim said that he has seen "the combination of internal and external that results in replication" referred to as a memeplex. This is a mistake that many people make, and I would like to help by providing a definition of "memeplex" that I work with.
>
> For me, a memeplex is a large collection of memes that rely upon each other for replication. It could be that the individual memes were once successful replicators but now they do not make it alone -- they need to be "connected" to the other memes in the memeplex to which they belong. An
example of a memeplex is a symphony, or a story. These contain a vast number of memes many of which do not get replicated in isolation. They exist together in the memeplex for mutual benefit and use each other for replication.
>
The meme for proselytization as the best thing one can do for both
others and oneself is a component which is found in most religious
and political memeplexes. It depends for its own survival and
reproduction upon a memeplex, from which it gets the substance of
what it proselytizes, to which it may remoralike attach itself, to give
its shark memeplex replicative teeth, yet is not constrained to lock
into any particulkar memeplex key. perhaps we should consider
the model of components within systems; memes are those
components which cannot be broken down into further components
without destroying their componential(?) integrity, but many
different memes may nestle into many differing memeplexes,
although all memes will not fit into all memeplexes. Some
components are interchangeable between and within memetic
systems; justt not universally.
>
> I am sure that many of you are already using this definition of memeplex, but I wanted to offer my contribution nonetheless.
>
> Cheers...
> Brent.
> ______________________
> Brent Silby 2000
>
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>
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> __________________________________________
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim Rhodes
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 9:15 AM
> Subject: Defining and moving on
>
>
> William Benzon wrote:
>
> <<<If you don't have a grasp of the data to be accounted for nor of the
> causal processes and mechanisms, then you just haggle over definitions.
> In my experience, serious thinkers don't waste time over definitions.
> Where the issues are well understood, thinkers may give definitions by
> way of indicating which (among several well-known) position they
> take.>>>
>
> I have the sense that most of us are using the same concepts, but under
> different names. There are many reasons for this (and too many of them
> are surprisingly petty or political), but I think it could be a useful
> exercise to lay out all the differing terms and compare them. I suspect
> we'll find we share more concepts more in common than we disagree.
>
> So here's a start, I call:
>
> A) the external vehicle by which memetic information is passed: the
> G-meme.
> B) the internal information necessary for propagating the cultural
> information: the L-meme.
> C) the combination of internal and external that results in
> replication: the meme
>
> I've seen (A) referred to by others as: the meme seed, the vehicle, the
> meme, the memetic artifact and several other terms. What term do you
> use for this concept?
>
> I've seen (B) referred to as: copying instructions, the meme,
> memes-in-the-mind, etc. What term do you use for this concept?
>
> I've also seen (C) referred to as: self-replicating mind viruses,
> memeplexes, the meme, etc. What term do you use for this concept?
>
> Lets build a list of overlapping terms, recognize what each other means
> by them, and then get this show on the road.
>
> -Tim Rhodes
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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