Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id KAA19631 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Mon, 2 Oct 2000 10:04:52 +0100 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:19:24 +0100 To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: the conscious universe Message-ID: <20001002091924.A662@reborntechnology.co.uk> References: <200010011820.OAA05584@mail5.lig.bellsouth.net>; <20001001201738.A985@reborntechnology.co.uk> <200010012005.QAA09382@mail3.lig.bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200010012005.QAA09382@mail3.lig.bellsouth.net>; from joedees@bellsouth.net on Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 03:10:33PM -0500 From: Robin Faichney <robin@reborntechnology.co.uk> Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Cutting to the chase, here:
On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 03:10:33PM -0500, Joe E. Dees wrote:
> But you are also denying any necessity of a complex pattern in the
> material substrate from which consciousness can emerge. That
> position has no evidence for it, and reams of evidence against it
> (the undeniable complexity of any systen we can prove to be
> conscious by means of its reaction to the sensed).
My computer can be said to react to sensing its keys being pressed by
putting characters up on the screen (as well as doing much other stuff).
Explain how "reaction to the sensed" is evidence of consciousness.
My position: There is, and can be, no objective evidence for (or against)
consciousness, in individuals or in the universe, because it is entirely
subjective, a "matter of opinion" as opposed to one of fact, which is why
it is entirely legitimate to suggest that it be considered a universal
attribute, instead of inexplicably being located in some systems that
exceed some arbitrary degree of complexity.
-- Robin Faichney=============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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