Re: the conscious universe

From: Joe E. Dees (joedees@bellsouth.net)
Date: Mon Oct 02 2000 - 09:44:43 BST

  • Next message: Robin Faichney: "Re: the conscious universe"

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    From: "Joe E. Dees" <joedees@bellsouth.net>
    To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 03:44:43 -0500
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    Subject: Re: the conscious universe
    In-reply-to: <20001001204433.A1104@reborntechnology.co.uk>
    References: <20001001192848.AAA26404@camailp.harvard.edu@[204.96.32.187]>; from wade_smith@harvard.edu on Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 03:28:52PM -0400
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    Date sent: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:44:33 +0100
    To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    Subject: Re: the conscious universe
    From: Robin Faichney <robin@reborntechnology.co.uk>
    Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk

    > On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 03:28:52PM -0400, Wade T.Smith wrote:
    > > Hi Robin Faichney --
    > >
    > > >This is a
    > > >"discovered conceptual truth" -- a matter for philosophy, not empiricial
    > > >science.
    > >
    > > A 'discovered conceptual truth'.
    > >
    > > Oh, boy.
    >
    > Consider this: if P then Q; P; therefore Q.
    >
    > That is a conceptual truth. It is abstract, and therefore empirically
    > untestable. It is not a _discovered_ conceptual truth, because it is
    > obviously true at first glance. In more complex cases, where analysis is
    > required, such truths are discovered. This is philosophy, Wade. If only
    > you weren't so scornful of it, you might find it quite interesting.
    > And some study of it would do wonders for the clarity of both your
    > thought and your exposition.
    >
    > Meanwhile, the rest of your message is redundant.
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    Since my primary field is philosophy, I can speak upon this.
    There is nothing logical, or in the least bit philosophical, about
    Robin's unsupported, and indeed, evidentiarily insupportable,
    assumption that the entire universe, and every atom in it, is
    conscious. Such a contention is concrete, not abstract, yet is not
    testable, and thus violates Popperian Falsifiability, as it is a
    positive universal empirical statement, and no universal statement
    may be empirically tested everywherewhen. In fact, Robin has not
    the whisp of a suggestion how one might go about testing a lump
    of granite for its purported consciousness. It is a purely
    mysticoreligious assumption. Of course, absence of evidence is
    not evidence of absence, but neither is it evidence of presence.
    Since such an assertion could never be tested, it cannot be an
    article of knowledge, philosophical or otherwise, and is correctly
    labeled an article of faith/belief.
    >
    > --
    > Robin Faichney
    >
    > ===============================================================
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    >
    >

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    This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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