Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id LAA05596 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:54:16 +0100 Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745A27@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: solipsistic view on memetics Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:51:55 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Big question this- but my own fault I know, so I'll try and answer it.
Two elements are important IMHO.
First, do those beliefs/practices have any bearing on external reality. In
other words do they actually either reflect reality, or do their intentions
achieve their intended goals. Essentially, are they verifiable. If they
aren't then what's the point, especially in comparison with other practices
that are verifiable (to a reasonable degree)? (in a way this goes back to
the utility arguments re memes)
Second, and very crucial, if not easy for individualists to accept, is the
social consequences of a set of beliefs or practices.
Most serial killers profess that they kill because they need to- it serves
as some kind of emotional/psuchological crutch for them- but is this
tolerable behaviour in a social sense? This is a central contention over
things such as cultural relativism. Within such a framework, then the
holocaust was justified because it was a reflection of dominant attitudes in
Nazi German culture- they believed what they were doing was right- although
few of the cultural relativists would say that, that is the result of their
arguments. To give another example, how many westerners regard African
practices of female circumcision as a legitimate practice?
OK, three very extreme examples, that having nothing necessarily to do with
mysticism. But the dangers of any kind of irrational or anti-rational
thinking, however one defines it, again IMHO, is that: it leads people away
from the notion that beliefs must be testable to have value; they start to
distrust practices and knowledge that are the products of that method; and
start to value almost anything that goes against such knowledge. In my view
this leads people away from the material reality of their lives, the
possiblity of realy understanding anything about the world, and this in and
of itself has consequences both at the individual and at the social level.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying people aren't entitled to beliefs; what
I'm saying is people are not entitled to avoid having those beliefs
challenged, particularly if those beliefs have consequences for others, and
only through having one's beliefs challenged and tested can they have any
real value, at an individual or social level. Any pratice or belief, or
proponent of a practice or belief, that decries questioning or criticism,
therefore, is inherently suspicious in my book.
Vincent
> ----------
> From: Richard Brodie
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:56 am
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: solipsistic view on memetics
>
> Vincent wrote:
>
> <<Besides, making oneself feel good, or whatever one does to get past OK
> (sorry Richard) is not a good enough reason for privileging one set of
> beliefs or practices over another on a general basis. >>
>
> Interesting comment. What exactly is a good reason for privileging one
> set
> of beliefs or practices over another on a general basis?
>
> Richard Brodie richard@brodietech.com www.liontales.com
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Tue Sep 19 2000 - 11:55:28 BST