Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id TAA26112 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 16 Sep 2000 19:57:34 +0100 Message-Id: <200009161858.OAA29019@mail1.lig.bellsouth.net> From: "Joe E. Dees" <joedees@bellsouth.net> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 13:59:51 -0500 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: solipsistic view on memetics In-reply-to: <001d01c01f4c$1b210be0$e506bed4@default> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: solipsistic view on memetics
Date sent: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 21:03:06 +0200
Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joe E. Dees <joedees@bellsouth.net>
> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> ..
> > >
> > My point here is that human infants are little machines genetically
> > programmed to transcend their programming, and to become free
> > and unique individuals rather than have their responses
> > circumscribed by species-wide instincts.
>
> << Joe, are you saying here, that is essence there is no collectiviness ?
> That we, their parents inflick collectiviness on our children ? Interesting
> !>>
>
Our children internalize the difference, which they learn from their
primary caregivers, between responsive others and the
resonsiveless general environment into a distinction between
psyche and soma. Both a social and a physical environment is
necessary for self-emergence (check feral children for empirical
evidence of this).
>
> It just means that there is no essence-in-general for selfhood, and each
> human self-consciousness spends its life constructing its own
> essence-in-particular.
>
> << So, each of us is a solipsistc being because our memes spent their lives
> constructing self- consciousness for their host in order to propagate
> themselves,
> that is the memes, further ?>>
>
No, self-consciousness, choice and free will are necessary to
human memetic evolution; otherwise there could be no directed
modification of l-memes (within a mind), and there could be no
selection between alternative versions created by such
modification, neither could there be propagation and
acceptance/rejection decisions in the g-meme (between minds)
arena. In fact, even multiple arbitrary languages, rather than single
instinctually circumscribed closed systems, reqiire self-
consciousness for their creation/invention, and language (in the
broad definition) is the means of memetic propagation.
>
> Our minds ARE esconsed in the evolving world, AND
> > an evolving representation of the world resides in each mind. And
> > while it is true that a representation of the world is not, and can
> > never be, the world itself, as the map is never the territory, we
> > yet experientially refine our individual maps throughout our lives to
> > most closely match the common territory (and the individual
> > aspects of it) which they represent.
>
> << Does this not mean, IMHO that our mind and therefor our memes are
> working in a solipsistic way...the representation of the world resides in
> each
> mind and I suppose that those representations are in each mind different due
> to
> variation and selection of affects...!? >>
>
Those variations vary due to the fact that Peter cannot be Paul; we
each possess a unique spatiotemporal perspective upon our
common world. The logical incogerencies of discredited mentally
masurbatory pseudosystems such as solipsism or its correlative
opposite abstract ideal extreme, no-selfism, do not enter into the
concrete experiential reality of the situation at all.
> Many regards,
>
> Kenneth
>
> ( I am, because we are)
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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