RE: Changing threads/ American Nationalism !?

From: Vincent Campbell (v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk)
Date: Fri Aug 18 2000 - 11:57:24 BST

  • Next message: Vincent Campbell: "RE: Changing threads/ American Nationalism !?"

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    From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk>
    To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
    Subject: RE: Changing threads/ American Nationalism !?
    Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:57:24 +0100
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    Thanks for this Lawrence.

    I'd agree with points 2 and 3, however, creationists in the US have, after
    all, succeeded in some states in making evolutionary theory such a pariah
    that many schools won't teach it, or teach it with massive disclaimers about
    it being only a theory. General public opinion rarely has anything to do
    with policy- committed insider lobbying on the other hand does, and it has
    been successful for the creationist lobby (and for the gun lobby, the
    tobacco lobby until recently, the chemical companies, the oil companies etc.
    etc.).

    I'm reminded of an episode of 'Friends' in which the paleontologist
    character (Ross) gets increasingly frustrated in his efforts to persuade his
    ditzy friend (Phoebe) who doesn't believe in evolution. It ends up with her
    saying that 'are you so incredibly arrogant that there isn't the teeny
    tiniest possiblity that you could be wrong?', he says, after a pause 'there
    could be a teeny tiny possibility that I could be wrong'- and she then
    attacks him for 'caving on his beliefs', and he goes off in a huff, all to
    roars of laughter from the audience. The impression I was left with was
    that this programme watched by what- 25 30 million Americans+- was
    explicitly saying evolution is a matter of opinion which you either belive
    or you don't, and believing in it is an act of human arrogance.

    Now, as people know, I reject simple notions of media effects, but the fact
    that the writers took the scene in this direction suggests to me what they
    thought of popular attitudes towards scientists and evolution.

    Vincent

    > ----------
    > From: Lawrence H. de Bivort
    > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 2:45 pm
    > To: memetics
    > Subject: Re: Changing threads/ American Nationalism !?
    >
    >
    >
    > Greetings to all...
    >
    > I must say that I am enjoying reading this discussion by Europeans of
    > America's social, political and evolutionary beliefs, seeing how you see
    > America. A couple of offerings for your consideration:
    >
    > 1. Darwin and 'creationism' -- don't be too impressed by this seeming
    > debate: creationism is really a fringe belief in terms of those who take
    > it seriously. It is used metaphorically, even poetically, by many
    > more. The fringe people here and there acquire disproportionate political
    > influence from time to time, which makes big headlines, but poorly
    > reflects general opinion.
    >
    > 2. VietNam had a massive psychological impact on the USA, still felt today
    > through unresolved disputes about the character of American society, the
    > role of government, and the role of the USA in the world. This has vastly
    > more impact than JFK's assassination, for example.
    >
    > 3. Like most people around the world, Americans are generally innumerate,
    > thus leaving us exposed to a rash of misperceptions. In America, where
    > traditional ways of doing things are less respected than in many other
    > countries, this innumeracy can be particularly costly and burdensome.
    >
    > I beleive that all three of these items have significant memetic
    > implications.
    >
    >
    > - Lawrence
    >
    >
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