Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id RAA11637 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Mon, 7 Aug 2000 17:21:15 +0100 Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745987@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: chimps at Blair Drummond Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 17:18:55 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
I keep meaning to phone the zoo up and ask them:
a) is this a persistent behaviour?
b) does just one chimp or all of them do it?
c) were the chimps taught this?
d) did anyone do something like this whilst the chimps were watching?
Vincent
By the by, and completely un-related, here's a suggested piece of reading
for anyone who's interested in some of the issues I've mentioned before
(just to prove it's not just me who's throwing mud :-)).
Shoemaker, PJ (1996) 'Hardwired for News: Using Biological and Cultural
Evolution to Explain the Surveillance Function', Journal of Communication,
46(3): 32-47
And- just for Aaron- no, the term 'meme' doesn't appear in the article.
(n.b. the 'surveillance' function is supposedly one of the reasons why we
use the media, used first by Lasswell, IIRC, but also used later in 'uses
and gratification' research which tried to judge the effects of mass
communication in terms of why we use the media in the first place).
> ----------
> From: Bill Spight
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Monday, August 7, 2000 4:02 pm
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: chimps at Blair Drummond
>
> Dear Vincent,
>
> > Chimps in Madras zoo live in a very large island surrounded by a moat.
> I
> > was chatting with the keeper on one side of the moat when a chimp ran
> > towards the edge of the island where we were making frantic sounds and
> > gestures. He (or she) then seemed to beckon us to follow him around as
> he
> > ran towards the other side of the island.
> >
> > Having got there he reached for a large red stone and, to our
> amazement,
> > threw it at a vendor standing and grinning on the other side! The chimp
> > seemed very agitated, jumping up and down screaming. Seeing our
> > amazed expression one of the people in the vicinity came and told us
> what
> > had happened: The vendor had apparently hurled the red stone at
> > the chimp a few minutes earlier to tease him. Infuriated, the chimp had
>
> > come to "complain" to the Keeper and had done so by beckoning him to
> > his region of the island and throwing the red stone back at the vendor,
>
> > either as "revenge" or to "tell" the keeper what had happened. Perhaps
> this
> > episode had made me read more into Povinelli's earlier experiments than
> I
> > should have! (And perhaps there is a simple, less "anthropomorphic"
> > explanation of the Chimp's behavior). But my personal feeling is that
> the
> > question of Apes modelling other minds is still open despite Povinelli's
>
> > retreat
> >
>
> There is a "chimpocentric" explanation, I believe. We know that chimps in
> the wild war on other primates. This one may have been getting some
> support
> before retaliating. Modeling other minds is not necessary to explain his
> behavior in social terms.
>
> Best,
>
> Bill
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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