Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id SAA03121 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 22 Jul 2000 18:51:41 +0100 Message-Id: <200007221749.NAA01572@mail3.lig.bellsouth.net> From: "Joe E. Dees" <joedees@bellsouth.net> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 12:54:10 -0500 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Was Freud a Minivan or S.U.V. Kind of Guy? Israel and Palestine. In-reply-to: <LPBBICPHCJJBPJGHGMCICEIACHAA.ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> References: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D310174594A@inchna.stir.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
From: "Chris Lofting" <ddiamond@ozemail.com.au>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: Was Freud a Minivan or S.U.V. Kind of Guy? Israel and Palestine.
Date sent: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 10:33:45 +1000
Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> > Of Vincent Campbell
> > Sent: Saturday, 22 July 2000 12:51
> > To: 'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'
> > Subject: RE: Was Freud a Minivan or S.U.V. Kind of Guy? Israel and
> > Palestine.
> >
> >
> > Just one more comment, and then I'll let it lie.
> >
> > I'm not a neuro-scientist, so I can't really comment on that
> > aspect of your
> > claims, but I'd be incredibly surprised to find that neuroscience
> > in any way
> > supports the notion that if we switch one I-ching symbol for
> > another we can
> > explain or solve problems in the Middle-East.
>
> You see, you miss the point totally. You are stuck at the level of
> expression and so incapable of seeing BEHIND the I ching symbol. What does
> it REPRESENT? It represents a neurologically determined general pattern of
> meaning. The I Ching is a metaphor, as are all other forms of expression.
> Metaphor for what? A metaphor for describing the interactions of objects
> and relationships and how, given a particular starting point, you can
> generally determine where things will go, how things will move.
>
All the I Ching is, is a 2*6 (64) complete digital set (broken and
unbroken instead of 1 and 0). A line can be broken (B) or unbroken
(U) (two alternatives). Two lines can be BU, UB, UU or BB (2 x 2,
or 4 alternatives); do this with six lines (2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2), and
you get the I Ching structure. Whoopee. Is it more profound than
if it were only carried through five lines (32 total), or less profound
than if you carried it through seven lines (128 alternatives)? All n-
line digital structures (2*n sets) are, are dualities to differing
exponential powers. There are many more relations than this one
extant, and no reason to consider it more central, fundamental, or
all-encompassing than many others (for instance the thesis-
antithesis-synthesis triad represented in the Levi-Strauss triscale
and found to obtain in Genesis matrimonial laws through the
Terrahite Connubium. One of the "hooks" of this particular
memeplex seems to be its attempt to complete some sort of
Strange Loop by uniting supposed "ancient wisdom" with the most
contemporaneous of scientific results, even (and especially) when
both are poorly understood in themselves, and insisting that, contra
fact, all these old quasinumerological systems can be reduced to
the same template. What about the Tarot, the Runes, and the
Qabbalistic Tree of Life? the 32 Shining Paths are composed of
ten stations, from Malkuth through Kether, and twenty-two
connections (just like 22 Major arcana), and there are 24 runes.
None of these are reduceable to the 2*nth structure of the I Ching.
There are eight solar holidays (solstices, equinoxes and cross-
quarters) and 13 lunar holidays in the Pagan wheel of the year, for
a total of 21. thirteern minus eight, on the other hand, gives us the
number of the pentacle, 5. What is the series? Fibonacci, where
each next term is comprised of the addition of the two preceding
terms (1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, etc.). Pascal's Triangle
1
1 1
1 2 1
1 3 3 1
1 4 6 4 1
provides us with yet another irreduceable series, where even
though the addition of the terms in a horizontal line adds up to
2*nth, the simple reading of the numbers as a whole (with carried
tens) is 11*nth. It is simplistic and reductionistic to attempt to
reduce all the possible patterns within human conception and
experience to one.
>
> In the I Ching symbolisms that I gave, the line represented a particular
> attitude, a particular element of a dichotomy.
>
> When your brain analyses data it will do so from a general-to-a-specific or
> the reverse. The line patterns represent dichotomies and they are LAYERED in
> that the base line serves as context within which the next line functions.
> These TWO lines in turn become the context for the next line; it is like the
> strata we see in the earth, bedrock leading to top soil.
>
> When we create three dimensional models we start with the X-axis, one
> dimension, and that is given a value of >0 or <0, positive/negative. We then
> add the Y-axis and move to two dimensions but this Y axis is deerived WITHIN
> THE CONTEXT SET BY THE X-axis. We continue to do this layering each
> dichotomy and so creating meaning. The insistence on these dimensions being
> orthogonal is to ensure we get maximum 'difference' to ensure we get a
> 'good' map. Thus the use of dichotomies such as similar/difference or
> positive/negative etc help to ensure this.
>
> The questions I proposed and answered are in a specific order to map this
> behaviour, moving from a general to a specific, and the I Ching SYMBOLISM is
> extremely useful in capturing the patterns that come from this sort of
> process.
>
> The particular questions are general questions that I have been able to come
> up with after a lot of study on how we process data and capture/create
> meaning. you can vary the expression but not the overall form.
>
> By answering the questions you create the symbols and you will find BEHIND
> those symbols sets of meaning that are properties of the METHOD of analysis
> and as such reflect the general way in which we think. That is why people
> see so much in esoteric systems since the systems themselves are founded on
> the use of recursive dichotomisation that is expressed by layering seemingly
> 'different' dichotomies.
>
> >
> > If it were that simple, then why not offer your services to the Camp David
> > negotiations? They certainly seem to need some help, and I'm sure they'd
> > appreciate it.
>
> I am sure they would but most dont get the idea at the moment, e.g. you. :-)
> It IS 'that simple' but that is the problem in that to recognise this sort
> of simplicity does require a bit of a paradimg shift :-) My problem is that
> I an not qualified, I am a university drop-out (half way through 2nd year).
> I got bored, started getting absent fails etc since I was getting more out
> of my own work as well as working in the computer industry, took to
> computers like a duck takes to water. Dropped out of Uni, took a 6 month IT
> course. Worked for a few companies until I got to the 'top' and then became
> a mercenary; gives me time to do my thinking etc. :-) Been doing that for
> over 23 years. Prior to that I was a professional musician (Rock. Jazz -
> 60s - far out man!)
>
> THe problem is that these days to present what I have done requires some
> sort of evidence that I have done the basics; people dont except experience
> anymore, or 'natural' abilities. Pity. On the IQ scale I am around the 98th
> percentile (in potentials) but performance is only at the 85th -- two+
> standard deviations off. At that level that is a 'big' difference. That
> comes from by AD(H)D that is unmedicated since I stopped smoking 60+ a
> day -- the nicotine actually kept me together :-)
>
> My daugher has ADD, same aptitude ratings (98th/87th). Thus I can get
> distracted a bit and I can write in a way that shows the distractions, I can
> 'jump' a bit or become too intense.
> The feedback I get from knowing what the problem is is VERY useful and so
> that helps a lot. Being 'smart' also helps in that I can do ok without the
> medication. not 'perfect' but ok :-)
>
> All of this material should have been completed YEARS ago and it requires a
> lot more fleshing-out but let be assure you this is no joke. We are dealing
> with SERIOUS stuff.
>
> >
> > If you feel that this system explains life the universe and everything for
> > you, then fine, I wish you well.
> >
>
> I have no idea about life, the universe, everything, only about HOW we go
> about making it meaningful. The validity of our maps is based on the
> feedback we get; for the flat earthers their ideas worked for a while until
> the evidence got too strong.
>
> We are animals, but unlike all of the other lifeforms that we share this
> planet with, we have a highly developed internal world, full of rich
> expressions and much difference, BUT there is behind all of that a SAMENESS
> and that is what most have failed to see or failed to try and understand
> more.
>
> > Vincent
> >
> > (By the way, just a small bit of advice regarding your presentation of
> > arguments- putting words in capital letters doesn't make them more
> > persuasive).
>
> Emphasis Vincent, basic emphasis. If I could put them in bold or italics or
> underline them I would but most people still communicate in text mode, text
> mode is the BEDROCK for email and so sticking to that mode ensures that all
> can read the email (there are some who still use lynx etc.) If something
> comes to be in graphics mode (HTML etc) and I wish to reply I will do so in
> text mode. Habit I guess :-)
>
> Best,
>
> Chris.
> ------------------
> Chris Lofting
> websites:
> http://www.eisa.net.au/~lofting
> http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ddiamond
>
>
>
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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