RE: Casualty of War

From: Aaron Lynch (aaron@mcs.net)
Date: Thu Jul 20 2000 - 20:16:11 BST

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    Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 14:16:11 -0500
    To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    From: Aaron Lynch <aaron@mcs.net>
    Subject: RE: Casualty of War
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    At 03:15 PM 7/20/00 +0100, Vincent Campbell wrote:
    >Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not all out to get you.
    >:-)
    >
    >Has this post come to the right list Aaron? The posting you refer to came
    >long before I joined the list, and does seem rather unfair- although I've no
    >idea what context it came in. But I wonder why you bring it up, 7 months
    >after it was posted? <snip>

    Vincent,

    You should be able to locate the posting by date and time in the memetics
    list web archive.

    >If you want to see a conspiracy then how about the fact that although I sent
    >off to Amazon.com for your book at the same time as Richard's, his has
    >already arrived, and yours has been shipped seperately and has yet to
    >arrive?!

    A few points here. If Amazon.com is out of my book, it is probably because
    recent press coverage of my work has created demand that exceeded their
    orders. In the unlikely case that the employees or executives of the
    company have a problem with my work, I doubt it is because of anything I
    said in the book. Finally, I appreciate your interest, but selling copies
    the little book called Thought Contagion is really not the focus of my
    scientific career.

    >I don't mean to make light of a situation that you clearly feel strongly
    >about, but this list should be about issues, evidence and argument, not
    >about attacks on or defenses of personal integrity/motive etc.etc.- and of
    >course I address that remark to all of us.

    I have made extensive comments about some kinds of attempts to "apply"
    memetic or psychological methods. In the present case, you might reasonably
    see it as a mistake to discuss psychological warfare tactics used on a
    listserver. However, apparent efforts to discourage me from doing my work
    (and others from reading about it) have also made it into the pages of the
    Journal itself--much to my disappointment. Looking at one of the titles, we
    see a suggestion that everyone already knows I am harming my own cause, and
    that the only question is why. That same title also contains an embedded
    suggestion that everyone already knows that my work does not pertain to
    anything real. You can, of course, insist on reading it as just a
    dispassionate account if issues, evidence, and argument. Or you might look
    at the words as manipulations: the instruments of psychological
    discouragement or even psychological warfare written by an extremely angry
    individual. As it happens, the extreme anger has been publicly stated on
    this listserver by the author of that paper long before you joined.

    Wars, whether shooting or psychological, are often started by extremely
    angry people. Such people can, and have, written at length about why they
    are so angry. As persuasive as they may seem, the reasons given for such
    extreme anger do not always match the realities. Angry people can convince
    themselves of many things that "justify" their anger. I think that Wade's
    comments get closer to the heart of the issue, and shed some light on why
    extreme anger sometimes arises among scientists. Scientists are as human as
    anyone else.

    --Aaron Lynch

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