Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id LAA27068 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:50:27 +0100 Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D310174593D@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Memes and sexuality Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:48:31 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Right, sorry this took a couple of days, I've been out of office.
[I went to a safari park where I got very cross at people laughing at a
small group of chimps kept on a small island (people are taken there by
boat, and the apes were thrown food which the 'apes' on the boat found very
funny), until, as the boat set off again, one of the chimps grabbed a large
chunk of mud from the edge of the island and hurled it at the boat, covering
some of the people who'd been laughing at them- serves them right I
thought!]
Anyway, Bloom's main sources for his critique of muslim society were-
Warnock Fernea, E (ed) (1985) 'Women and Family in the Middle East: new
Voices of Change', Austin: Texas Uni press
Minces, J (1982) 'The House of Obedience: Women in Arab Society', London:
Zed Press
Altorki, S (1986) 'Women in Saudi Arabia: Ideology and Behaviour among the
Elite', New York: Columbia Uni Press
Goodwin, J (1994) 'Price of Honour: Muslim Women Lift the Veil of Silence on
the Islamic World', Boston: Little, Brown & co.
I think Bloom had a clear agenda in presenting the Islamic world as the
threat to American remaining at the top of the pecking order, so that's
bound to have influenced his perspsective, and choice of sources no doubt.
Vincent
> ----------
> From: Lawrence H. de Bivort
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 3:15 pm
> To: 'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'
> Subject: RE: Memes and sexuality
>
>
> If Bloom's views are correctly represented, he is ignorant of Muslim
> doctrine, culture and practice. Child abuse is anathema in the Muslim
> world to an extent not found in the USA, Western Europe and Eastern
> Europe. I base this assessment on internal research carried out by the
> Children's Bill of Rights organization. Variables included: physical
> abuse, sexual abuse, psychological abuse, and commercial exploitation.
>
> - Lawrence
>
> On Tue, 18 Jul 2000, Vincent Campbell wrote:
>
> >Despite being wrong, some do attest to this kind of argument. Howard
> Bloom
> >presents this argument in his 'The Lucifer Principle', for example,
> arguing
> >that Moslems, for example, tend to be violent societies because they
> abuse
> >their kids.
> >
> >If social violence occurs because of a single cause, it is most likely to
> be
> >hierarchies, whether in the family, in the local community, or on the
> global
> >scale. Hierarchies are not a product of child abuse, indeed it's more
> the
> >other way around.
> >
> >Vincent
> >
> >> ----------
> >> From: Wade T.Smith
> >> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 1:09 pm
> >> To: Memetics Discussion List
> >> Subject: Re: Memes and sexuality
> >>
> >> >http://www.psychohistory.com/htm/05_history.html
> >>
> >> I like it.
> >>
> >> I don't have any sides here. I do see a continuing saga, not a sudden
> >> crest. I do think ignorance is deep in the faultline of abuse.
> >>
> >> But, I don't see this- from your citing- "That all social
> >> violence--whether by war, revolution or economic exploitation--is
> >> ultimately a consequence of child abuse should not surprise us" - as
> >> anything but wishful hyperbole.
> >>
> >> - Wade
> >>
> >> ===============================================================
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> >
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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