Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id QAA25297 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:56:10 +0100 From: "Chris Lofting" <ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Was Freud a Minivan or S.U.V. Kind of Guy? Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 02:11:52 +1000 Message-ID: <LPBBICPHCJJBPJGHGMCIOEHBCHAA.ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20000719123018.AAA6120@camailp.harvard.edu@[128.103.125.215]> Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
More or less Wade:-) Since the processes are applied recursively, and so
follow complexity/chaos development patterns, apparent fundamentals can
emerge at higher levels but are only so at, and beyond, the level in which
they emerge. Thus the perceptions of mathematical processes emerge at higher
levels than the neurology and due to their better differentiation are
interpreted as if fundamental and can be used as such. However in the
context of our species mathematical processes are not fundamentals, the
differentiation has come from metaphorcation, symbolisation,
particularisation, of the basic object/relationship, sameness/difference
categorisations of the neurology. The template work does not take anything
away from maths other than its mystique. What the template does is fill in
the space in-between the bedrock and the top soil and in so doing show a
continuous development, operating recursively.
From this we can 'see' how disciplines develop, take-on a 'life' and how
they serve as METAPHORS for describing object/relationship states. This
process allows for the emergence of Astrology etc since the bedrock does not
change, just the expressions in the top soil and these expressions can cause
interpretive problems when taken beyond their original contexts.
In principle ANY discipline can give you a FULL description of reality but
it would be so 'intense', require the learning of an extremely
complex/refined lexicon that for us it is a waste of time in that more
general disciplines such as Mathematics etc can do a more precise/universal
job since these disciplines are more general than the spoken word; almost
culture-free (the spoken word being more *socially* precise than mathematics
in that it gets down to individual/family levels and carries emotion better.
Perhaps a 'new' mathematics will emerge, based on the wave metaphor, that
can get down to expressing refined emotional content!)
This use of Mathematics etc., does not take anything away from the more
esoteric disciplines in that we recognise their sense of value as long as
they are kept within their context, which for Astrology etc is a context of
social persona categorisation using the planets and star patterns as
metaphors to 'carry' the underlying meanings both in identifying an object
(Aries TYPE) and relationships (Aries type to Cancer type etc). There are
Aries personalities, they are just not all born in April!
BTW The Aries type maps to the MBTI NT temperament; the other two fire signs
are *refinements* of the NT type, the Aries type being the fundamental. Thus
modern western Astrology can be traced back to 4 fundamentals, 8 composites
which over time (and confusion about what was going on) became the 12 signs
you 'see' today.
best,
Chris.
------------------
Chris Lofting
websites:
http://www.eisa.net.au/~lofting
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ddiamond
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of Wade T.Smith
> Sent: Wednesday, 19 July 2000 10:30
> To: memetics list
> Subject: RE: Was Freud a Minivan or S.U.V. Kind of Guy?
>
>
> On 07/19/00 08:33, Chris Lofting said this-
>
> >ALL external phenomena (and for that matter internal) is ONLY explainable
> >within the context set by our senses and they operate by making
> >SAMENESS/DIFFERENCE distinctions which lead to the generalisations of
> >objects and relationships. That is it. All of our tools, Mathematics in
> >particular, can be shown to have developed from these fundamentals.
>
> There- Chris said it- his main proposition- in one paragraph.
>
> Take it or leave it.
>
> - Wade
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Wed Jul 19 2000 - 16:57:00 BST