From: Kate Distin (memes@distin.co.uk)
Date: Mon 04 Apr 2005 - 14:39:46 GMT
Scott Chase wrote:
>
> --- Keo Ormsby <chor02@xenomexico.org> wrote:
>
> (snip)
>
>>Most people would agree that memes are determined by
>>biological and
>>psychological factors, as well as social, but the
>>relative weight of each
>>factor varies with each author. Although I am
>>guessing that given Durkheim's
>>historical context, he said this to stress the point
>>that it is more
>>informative to study the social fact from its
>>interactions between
>>individuals (social point of view), than from the
>>point of view of the
>>individual or the biological species. In this sense
>>he is in agreement with
>>memetics.
>>
>
> In Durkheim's own (translated) words, after a
> paragraph where he talks of the way elements can be
> associated or juxtaposed:
>
> [ED] "By virtue of this principle, society is not the
> mere sum of individuals, but the system formed by
> their association represents a specific reality which
> has its own characteristics. Undoubtedly no collective
> entity can be produced if there are no individual
> consciousnesses: this is a necessary but not a
> sufficient condition. In addition, these
> consciousnesses must be associated and combined, but
> combined in a certain way. It is from this combination
> that social life arises and consequentially it is this
> combination which explains it. By aggregating
> together, by interpenetrating, by fusing together,
> individuals give birth to a being, psychical if you
> will, but one which constitutes a psychical
> individuality of a new kind." [ED]
>
> It seems to me that we could look at Durkheim's
> socifacts as having emergent properties as the above
> passage is striving towards an emergentism of some
> kind. It could be OTOH a holism that verges upon
> vitalism, in which case run for the hills ;-)
>
> Emile Durkheim. 1982. The Rules of Sociological
> Method. The Free Press. New York. trans. by WD Halls
>
I've been very interested to read all your thoughts on Durkheim -
especially since it's a few years now since I wrote that passage and
hadn't really thought much about it since.
My attention was caught by your questions about Durkheim's views on
emergence, holism, etc. - it reminded me of John Steinbeck's phalanx
theories, and bits of Arthur Koestler. As you say, there's always a
fine line between theory and wild speculation in this area!
Kate
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