Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id UAA05926 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 30 Jun 2000 20:26:33 +0100 Message-ID: <000f01bfe2cc$cebf1be0$5c0dbed4@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D31017458E9@inchna.stir.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Cons and Facades/memetic engineering Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 21:50:47 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: Cons and Facades/memetic engineering
>
> The problem with your holodeck idea, is that of the apparent absoluteness
of
> the child sex taboo- paedophiles' desires are unlikely to be tolerated in
> any form. Besides, most people (erroneously IMHO) don't buy the catharsis
> argument for conventional media, preferring to assume that media incite
> people rather than sate their desires- the more 'real' the experience
> offered the more inciteful.
>
> Vincent
>
> > ----------
> > From: Kenneth Van Oost
> > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 7:22 pm
> > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > Subject: Re: Cons and Facades/memetic engineering
>
> > > Kenneth Van Oost made this comment not too long ago --
> > >
> > > >But I also wish that you give us the time to prove that the idea of
> > memetic
> > > >engineering can benefit other people's needs and not our own.
> > >
> > > This is an interesting sidebar to the objections any of us may have
> > about
> > > the phrase 'memetic engineering', in that, where do we find the line
> > > between people's needs and our own? And how, having found it, do we
walk
> > >
> > it?
> >
> > Wade,
> >
> > People' s needs!
> > Do you know Megan's Law !? Are you American !?
> > If not, let me summarize. In a nutshell, local authorities are due to
let
> > the
> > people of a district know if/ when/ where a sex-offender is gonna live
in
> > your neighbourhood. What are the moral objections here !?
> > Who is getting frustrated, you or the offender who where ever he/ she
goes
> > is always pointed one finger. He can't find a job, has no home, no place
> > to
> > be.
> > Do you think this is the ultimate solution !?
> > I do not !
> >
> > But I don't state the following is the ultimate solution either, but
one.
> > In my opinion a sex- offender has no ' place ' where he can turn to if
the
> > need is to high. If you are a drunk you go to a pub, if you like speed
you
> > go the racetrack, but for sex, yes you can go to the whores, but that is
> > not the kind of sex the offender wants. He wants rape, childabuse and
> > in the extreme murder.
> > I know, I know, it is very extreme, but I go always straight for the
heart
> > !
> >
> > So, I propose you have a look what ' Holodeck- Technology ' has to
offer.
Vincent, in addition to your add.
Of course, the practical application of the Holodeck technology will have
major problems, not to say huge problems, not in the least at the social
level but also at the political, religious and cultural level.
But I am confidient that people, like we did before with abortion, (at least
at some level) see through the obstacles and will open up their mind for
future ideas.
In that respect the idea that anyone is not only genetical unique but also
memetical is a major advantage in that area.
We have to convince people that as we who like beer and watch TV there
are people who like to watch little children.
Perhaps this is not quit the place to discuss such matters, if you want I
will do that, but in my opinion, as the pile of info I have about these
matters
suggest ' childabuse, rape and murder are not so abnormal as it seems '.
" One out of three men is physical abused by an adult and one out of eight
woman is ever as a child sexually abused " .
" Serious physical violence (such as beating,stranglation, biting, burning
or
assaulting) has been experienced by 11% of the boys and by 9% of the
girls. 31 % of the men and 21% of the woman said physical to have been
abused. 13% of the girls and 4% of the boys said to have been sexual
abused. "
Those figures are mentioned in a rapport by the Canadian Mc Masters
University (1997) by Harriet Mc Millan.For more detail I have to look it
up.
Not that this proves anything but in the long run I have doubts that people
will stay that ignorant.
Regards,
Kenneth
(I am, because we are) again one step closer
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