Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id OAA18362 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:19:53 +0100 From: "Chris Lofting" <ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Cons and Facades - more on truth Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 23:34:15 +1000 Message-ID: <LPBBICPHCJJBPJGHGMCIIENNCGAA.ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D31017458D8@inchna.stir.ac.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of Vincent Campbell
> Sent: Wednesday, 21 June 2000 10:23
> To: 'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'
> Subject: RE: Cons and Facades - more on truth
>
>
> > Have a look at some of the NLP material (NeuroLinguistic Programming).
> > Much
> > has been dressed up in some fancy terms but the basics are
> valid, i.e. use
> > of representations systems based on sensory biases (vision, audition,
> > kinesthetics, gustatory, olfactory -- all analogue based) and the a-to-d
> > conversion to language. Establishing rapport and creating a
> slight trance
> > state and then delivering the message. Advertising companies,
> sales teams,
> > and political groups are getting into this.
> >
> > Different persona types will respond in different ways but these can be
> > mapped and so we can create algorithms used to target a persona group or
> > an
> > individual without their knowing or permission.
> >
> > The system 'works' since they use the layering of dichotomisations and
> > that
> > sets off resonances 'in here'. Most have no idea what they are dealing
> > with -- unfortunate but then the attitude is 'who cares, we are making
> > money!'. They are into the expression rather than what is behind that
> > expression, which is what memetics is about.
> >
> > Some of the material is dangerous in that I can easily send someone home
> > with mental 'gun' if I am not careful about how I do things.
> >
> I'm not usually driven to make comments like this, but I'm sorry this is
> utter rubbish. If you can do all this how come you're not king of the
> world?
>
(0) I wouldnt be the only one and so we get into relationall space, this
said I think you may have misunderstood my terminology in that ....
(1) as i said to wade, the 'I' is a general not a particular, replace it
with 'you' or 'one' etc
(2) you seem to link these sorts of abilities with an immediate claim to
power. Not my way. I work local as does the above gun. that said most
motivation courses etc use a lot of NLP so perhaps there are some who will
go for the power. I have no NEED for this sort of power game, I am fine
where I am (bit more money could help but then I am working on that). If you
had some sort of ability like those mentioned you would go for the power?
yes?
I suppose my early background in music/showbiz put me off this sort of
material, I am not interested in the expression but more what is behind it
since I well understand the bullshit that goes on. (Want 'power'? getup
infront of 40000+ people and get rapport and watch them sway, it is a buzz
and I am sure some cant get enough but to me it is just a gig and a bit of
fun. Gave all of that up many years ago, prefer to 'dig' and uncover what
the hell is going on 'in here'.)
(3) if i can put you into a light trance and sell you on the idea of 'you
participating in lifting the nation to 'new' heights' wouldnt you like to be
aware of this or would you prefer just to 'obey orders', 'go with the flow',
claim that there is no subliminal programming at work?
(4) if i/one/you etc teach you these methods without any controls,
checks/balances you are happy with that? you support the NRA do you?
Most NLP organisations seem to have some ethics but there are many who do
not and do not see that this sort of mental training is the same as giving
someone a gun. The point is that you can kill minds as well as bodies and if
you are going to refine the methods of doing this (as NLP can do) you do
need some checks and balances.
best,
Chris.
>
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