From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Mon 08 Sep 2003 - 20:14:08 GMT
From: "Lawrence DeBivort" <debivort@umd5.umd.edu>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: The Text of Dubya's Terrorism Speech
Tonight
Date sent: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 16:13:05 -0400
Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> As he has had to several times before, I appeal to the moderator of
> this list to deal directly with Joe Dee's bigotry.
>
Please cite, with quotes, the bigotry with which you accuse me, or else
retract your false and vicious accusation.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On
> > Behalf Of joedees@bellsouth.net Sent: Mon, September 08, 2003 2:25
> > PM To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: RE: The Text of Dubya's Terrorism
> > Speech Tonight
> >
> >
> > From: Vincent Campbell <VCampbell@dmu.ac.uk>
> > To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'"
> > <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> > Subject: RE: The Text of Dubya's Terrorism Speech
> > Tonight
> > Date sent: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 14:43:22 +0100
> > Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >
> > > Joe why don't you just join up and get yourself posted out there?
> > >
> > > Despite continual attempts by fellow list members and the
> > > moderator to get you to stick to the topic and avoid these
> > > continual pointless tirades against anyone who doesn't worship at
> > > the idol of Rumsfeld, you continue to press that send button. The
> > > problem is it just makes me, and I suspect many others want to
> > > filter out or delete everything you send, which is a shame since
> > > when you're writing on topic you always contribute usefully. I
> > > just can't be arsed to wade through your ultra-fascist, shoot
> > > first ask questions later, the winners are always right, line on
> > > events that you've taken since (and obviously been blinded by) Sep
> > > 11th.
> > >
> > > Vincent
> > >
> > I'm 47; that's why.
> > I was only answering Jeremy's extremely inaccurate and zealously
> > aggressive post - and now I shall answer yours. People who have
> > internalized the cognitively blinding "Hate Bush" meme cannot
> > constitutionally seem to stomach the notion that he could be right
> > about ANYthing, in either words or actions. The "Hate Bush" meme
> > seems to have completely filtered out any possibility for them to
> > grasp anything but a meme-constructed parallel 'reality' that
> > includes as it's main element "Bush as Devil Incarnate". They get
> > extremely emotional and illogical concerning this when presented
> > with the facts, just as Islamofascists (who are the REAL fascists,
> > thankyouverymuch, despite your stream of gratuitous and false ad
> > hominems) do when told that infidels shouldn't have to choose
> > between conversion, death or dhimmitude. And the US did NOT shoot
> > first; there is the little matter of two DOZEN terrorist attacks by
> > Al Quaeda, culminating in 9/11, and hundreds of attacks on coalition
> > aircraft patrolling no-fly zones to keep a dictator from further
> > mass-murdering Shiites and Kurds. Plus, the winners are not always
> > wrong (there goes that "David vs. Goliath",
> > nothing-the-powerful-can-do-is-right,
> > nothing-the-weak-can-do-is-wrong meme again, the same one that is
> > being so successfully exploited by jihadist suicide bombers). After
> > Hamas broke the truce by bus-bombing 21 people to death, amny of
> > them children, and after the al Quaedans in Iraq killed UN envoy Di
> > Mello (mainly, I'll bet, because he brokered the secession of East
> > Timor, rather than stand by and let the Muslims there massacre the
> > infidel Christian population) and bombed the Najaf mosque killing
> > the leading shiite cleric, it seems that people would begin to grasp
> > that these people are out to destroy anyone who is noty an
> > ideological and memetic clone of themselves, but NOOOOO, those who
> > should realize that their very existence as free people is under
> > attack by implacable fanatics are too infested with the "Hate Bush"
> > meme to have their precious attentions diverted by anything so
> > irrelevent as the intervention of actual reality...
> > >
> > > > ----------
> > > > From: joedees@bellsouth.net
> > > > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 8, 2003 4:49 AM
> > > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > Subject: Re: The Text of Dubya's Terrorism Speech Tonight
> > > >
> > > > Date sent: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 12:43:40 +1000
> > > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > From: Jeremy Bradley <jeremyb@nor.com.au>
> > > > Subject: Re: The Text of Dubya's Terrorism Speech
> > > > Tonight
> > > > Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > >
> > > > > At 08:47 PM 7/09/03 -0500, you wrote:
> > > > > >Go to:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/09/20030907-1.ht
> > > > > >ml
> > > > > >
> > > > > Joe
> > > > > What has this propaganda got to do with memetics? Surely, if
> > > > > the USA went to war against the advice of most Nations in the
> > > > > civilised world, should they not now shoulder the burden of
> > > > > rectifying that rogue act alone? Why expect the UN to pick up
> > > > > the pieces now when the US, has killed up to 10,000 inocent
> > > > > Iraquis, destroyed infrastructure, denigrated the UN's ability
> > > > > to detect WMD's, told lies and even refused to pay their dues?
> > > > > When I wanted to discus the 'Might is Right' meme that lies at
> > > > > the core of US arrogance, you inflamed the topic so that the
> > > > > meme could not be rationally, and academically, addressed. So
> > > > > why should you now want to insult our intelligence with GW's
> > > > > latest BS Bulletin? Jeremy
> > > > >
> > > > Let's begin with your factual inaccuracies and go on from
> > > > there. The so-called few countries in the 'civilized world',
> > > > (and far less than half of even the European Union), France,
> > > > Germany and Russia among them (plus the encircled Belgium), who
> > > > used the UN as a cynical tool in order to block the liberation
> > > > of twenty-plus million people, were acting from selfish and not
> > > > globally responsible motives, considering that they had
> > > > surreptitiously circumvented UN resolutions to sell weapons and
> > > > weapons-producing technology to Iraq and were upset at seeing
> > > > their fat oil contracts, which they had received in payment from
> > > > a grateful mass-murdering dictator, lose their
> > > > multibillion-dollar worth before their eyes with the despot's
> > > > fall. I suppose that if these nations
> > > >
> > > > decide to help with Iraq's democratic reconstruction, that they
> > > > may get those Saddamic bribes revalidified; they certainly would
> > > > not do so out of principles such as democracy, personal freedom
> > > > and self- determination. The US has killed far fewer than
> > > > 10,000 civilian Iraqi noncombatants; in fact, the Iraq war was
> > > > indeed the most civilian'conscious in history (followed closely
> > > > by the Afghan war). Most credible counts put the Afghan civilian
> > > > casualties at around 3000, and the Iraqi casualties as much
> > > > lower (this in comparison to a dictator who has caused the
> > > > deaths of more than 2 MILLION Muslims during his rule, more than
> > > > any other human being in history, and would have continued to do
> > > > so ad nauseum had he not been stopped). The US pays about 20%
> > > > of UN dues, even though there are 190 other member countries.
> > > > It recently paid a large chunk of its arrears to the UN, in
> > > > spite of the nakedly self-seving obstructionism of some of its
> > > > more globally irresponsible and greedy members, and its bizarre
> > > > policies of putting terrorist-harboring dictator-lead countries
> > > > like Syria and Libya at the head of important disarmament and
> > > > human rights committees. Infrastructure? The vast
> > majority of
> > > > it was left standing by the US action, which did NOT resort to
> > > > heavy bombing, but rather utilized precision smart bomb strikes
> > > > against command posts and troop concentrations as an adjunct to
> > > > a ground war that should have forever dispelled the Al Quaeda
> > > > myth that the US was a cowardly paper tiger that would turn tail
> > > > and run in the face of casualties (although that myth
> > > >
> > > > was already pretty much already destroyed in Afghanistan). The
> > > > only reason that the infrastructure is not completely functional
> > > > now (and it operated badly under Saddam, but no one dared
> > > > complain THEN, did they?) is as a result of Baathist holdouts
> > > > and Al Quaeda jihadists continuously attempting to sabotage it
> > > > as a means to obstruct the democratic reconstruction of Iraq, a
> > > > process that is making great strides in the Kurdish north and
> > > > the Shiite south and is only facing a degree of difficulty in
> > > > the Sunni triangle which forms Saddam's power base. As far as
> > > > lies go, the info. that Dubya's famous 'sixteen words' was based
> > > > upon came from British intelligence, and he did not assert that
> > > > Saddam had SUCCEEDED in obtaining fissionable uranium from some
> > > > African countries; merely that Saddam had SOUGHT it there - a
> > > > charge that is almost certainly true.
> > WMD's? There is
> > > > credible evidence that, following Russian advice, Saddam moved
> > > > some of his WMD's to a burial location in the Lebanese bekaa
> > > > valley and destroyed others. There is also the evidence of the
> > > > gas centrifuge pieces found buried in an Iraqi nuclear
> > > > scientist's rose garden, and his testimony that he had been
> > > > told, by Qusay Hussein (one of Saddam's late sons) to hide them
> > > > there until the heat was off, at which time they would be
> > > > unearthed and used to purify fissionable uranium for use in
> > > > building nuclear weapons. And what would the purpose of these
> > > > weapons be? To allow Saddam to threaten any nation that dared
> > > > to try to expel him once he completed his next planned move to
> > > > take over the Saudi Peninsula (Kuwait was only his first
> > > > objective in 1990), and then he could perpetrate global
> > > > blackmail by strangulating the world's oil supply. And he would
> > > > not need long- range missiles in order to effect such an attack,
> > > > merely need to smuggle those weapons inside the borders of his
> > > > target country and have them detonated onsite by either his own
> > > > operatives or members of terror groups (the same thing he had
> > > > been doing for years by paying 10K per Palestinian suicide
> > > > bomber to their families,
> > only writ large).
> > > > Now, the question is, why would you, with an obvious lack of
> > > > knowledge and study of the relevant issues, make such egregious
> > > > and demostrably false claims? I think that it is as a result of
> > > > unreasoning hate. In other words, I believe that it is because
> > > > you have been infected
> > > >
> > > > with the "Dubya is the Antichrist" meme, and quite irrationally
> > > > view him as worse than Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao combined,
> > > > and even worse than the Al Quaedans, who OPENLY wish to destroy
> > > > all freedoms of religion, thought, action and choice, and
> > > > annihilate all traces of democracy from the entire world,
> > > > replacing all these with a repressive global theocratic
> > > > islamofascist Ummah run according to sharia law. Let me be
> > > > clear about this; I am no Dubya-lover. I consider his
> > > > borrow-and-spend fiscal policies to be as economically
> > > > undermining as the democrats' borrow-and-spend policies (at leat
> > > > Clinton realized that even the federal credit card would have to
> > > > be eventually paid). I also am distressed by his undermining of
> > > > church-state separation, as evinced by his support for religious
> > > > school vouchers, federal support for faith-based initiatives,
> > > > and opposition to abortion (none of which have passed into law).
> > > > However, I agree with his pursuing the terror plotters to their
> > > > bases so we have less of a chance of once again seeing them
> > > > wreak their carnage on our streets. Iraq is serving as an Al
> > > > Quaeda flypaper (although it couldn't function as such without
> > > > their cooperation). Let the jihadists journey to Tikrit and
> > > > fight armed and alert US troops, rather than journey to the US
> > > > and massacre unarmed and clueless civilians on local streets. I
> > > > do not see a single Democratic
> > > >
> > > > candidate that 'gets' this, so, for the first time since I was
> > > > 18 (I am 47), I may have to sit the next presidential election
> > > > out (and no, I have NEVER voted for a Republican in a
> > > > presidential election). Or perhaps it is because you are
> > > > infected with the "David and Goliath" meme, and cannot wrap your
> > > > mind around the concept that sometimes might and right can
> > > > indeed occasionally coincide (as ended up happening in WW II).
> > > > (Scratching my head and shaking it sadly all at the same
> > > > time)...
> > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > > ~
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeremy Bradley
> > > > > 3200 Oxley Hwy Hartys Plains 2446
> > > > > Phone:02 65856652 or 02 65856134
> > > > > E-mail: jeremyb@nor.com.au
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ==============================================================
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ===============================================================
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> > >
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> >
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>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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