From: Lawrence DeBivort (debivort@umd5.umd.edu)
Date: Mon 08 Sep 2003 - 20:13:05 GMT
As he has had to several times before, I appeal to the moderator of this
list to deal directly with Joe Dee's bigotry.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of joedees@bellsouth.net
> Sent: Mon, September 08, 2003 2:25 PM
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: The Text of Dubya's Terrorism Speech Tonight
>
>
> From: Vincent Campbell <VCampbell@dmu.ac.uk>
> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'"
> <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> Subject: RE: The Text of Dubya's Terrorism Speech
> Tonight
> Date sent: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 14:43:22 +0100
> Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>
> > Joe why don't you just join up and get yourself posted out there?
> >
> > Despite continual attempts by fellow list members and the moderator to
> > get you to stick to the topic and avoid these continual pointless
> > tirades against anyone who doesn't worship at the idol of Rumsfeld,
> > you continue to press that send button. The problem is it just makes
> > me, and I suspect many others want to filter out or delete everything
> > you send, which is a shame since when you're writing on topic you
> > always contribute usefully. I just can't be arsed to wade through
> > your ultra-fascist, shoot first ask questions later, the winners are
> > always right, line on events that you've taken since (and obviously
> > been blinded by) Sep 11th.
> >
> > Vincent
> >
> I'm 47; that's why.
> I was only answering Jeremy's extremely inaccurate and zealously
> aggressive post - and now I shall answer yours. People who have
> internalized the cognitively blinding "Hate Bush" meme cannot
> constitutionally seem to stomach the notion that he could be right about
> ANYthing, in either words or actions. The "Hate Bush" meme seems to
> have completely filtered out any possibility for them to grasp anything
> but a meme-constructed parallel 'reality' that includes as it's main
> element "Bush as Devil Incarnate". They get extremely emotional and
> illogical concerning this when presented with the facts, just as
> Islamofascists (who are the REAL fascists, thankyouverymuch, despite
> your stream of gratuitous and false ad hominems) do when told that
> infidels shouldn't have to choose between conversion, death or
> dhimmitude. And the US did NOT shoot first; there is the little
> matter of
> two DOZEN terrorist attacks by Al Quaeda, culminating in 9/11, and
> hundreds of attacks on coalition aircraft patrolling no-fly zones to keep
> a dictator from further mass-murdering Shiites and Kurds. Plus, the
> winners are not always wrong (there goes that "David vs. Goliath",
> nothing-the-powerful-can-do-is-right, nothing-the-weak-can-do-is-wrong
> meme again, the same one that is being so successfully exploited by
> jihadist suicide bombers).
> After Hamas broke the truce by bus-bombing 21 people to death, amny
> of them children, and after the al Quaedans in Iraq killed UN envoy Di
> Mello (mainly, I'll bet, because he brokered the secession of East
> Timor, rather than stand by and let the Muslims there massacre the
> infidel Christian population) and bombed the Najaf mosque killing the
> leading shiite cleric, it seems that people would begin to grasp that
> these people are out to destroy anyone who is noty an ideological and
> memetic clone of themselves, but NOOOOO, those who should realize
> that their very existence as free people is under attack by implacable
> fanatics are too infested with the "Hate Bush" meme to have their
> precious attentions diverted by anything so irrelevent as the
> intervention of actual reality...
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From: joedees@bellsouth.net
> > > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > Sent: Monday, September 8, 2003 4:49 AM
> > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > Subject: Re: The Text of Dubya's Terrorism Speech Tonight
> > >
> > > Date sent: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 12:43:40 +1000
> > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > From: Jeremy Bradley <jeremyb@nor.com.au>
> > > Subject: Re: The Text of Dubya's Terrorism Speech
> > > Tonight
> > > Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > >
> > > > At 08:47 PM 7/09/03 -0500, you wrote:
> > > > >Go to:
> > > > >
> > > > >http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/09/20030907-1.html
> > > > >
> > > > Joe
> > > > What has this propaganda got to do with memetics? Surely, if the
> > > > USA went to war against the advice of most Nations in the
> > > > civilised world, should they not now shoulder the burden of
> > > > rectifying that rogue act alone? Why expect the UN to pick up the
> > > > pieces now when the US, has killed up to 10,000 inocent Iraquis,
> > > > destroyed infrastructure, denigrated the UN's ability to detect
> > > > WMD's, told lies and even refused to pay their dues? When I wanted
> > > > to discus the 'Might is Right' meme that lies at the core of US
> > > > arrogance, you inflamed the topic so that the meme could not be
> > > > rationally, and academically, addressed. So why should you now
> > > > want to insult our intelligence with GW's latest BS Bulletin?
> > > > Jeremy
> > > >
> > > Let's begin with your factual inaccuracies and go on from there.
> > > The so-called few countries in the 'civilized world', (and far less
> > > than half of even the European Union), France, Germany and Russia
> > > among them (plus the encircled Belgium), who used the UN as a
> > > cynical tool in order to block the liberation of twenty-plus million
> > > people, were acting from selfish and not globally responsible
> > > motives, considering that they had surreptitiously circumvented UN
> > > resolutions to sell weapons and weapons-producing technology to Iraq
> > > and were upset at seeing their fat oil contracts, which they had
> > > received in payment from a grateful mass-murdering dictator, lose
> > > their multibillion-dollar worth before their eyes with the despot's
> > > fall. I suppose that if these nations
> > >
> > > decide to help with Iraq's democratic reconstruction, that they may
> > > get those Saddamic bribes revalidified; they certainly would not do
> > > so out of principles such as democracy, personal freedom and self-
> > > determination. The US has killed far fewer than 10,000 civilian
> > > Iraqi noncombatants; in fact, the Iraq war was indeed the most
> > > civilian'conscious in history (followed closely by the Afghan war).
> > > Most credible counts put the Afghan civilian casualties at around
> > > 3000, and the Iraqi casualties as much lower (this in comparison to
> > > a dictator who has caused the deaths of more than 2 MILLION Muslims
> > > during his rule, more than any other human being in history, and
> > > would have continued to do so ad nauseum had he not been stopped).
> > > The US pays about 20% of UN dues, even though there are 190 other
> > > member countries. It recently paid a large chunk of its arrears to
> > > the UN, in spite of the nakedly self-seving obstructionism of some
> > > of its more globally irresponsible and greedy members, and its
> > > bizarre policies of putting terrorist-harboring dictator-lead
> > > countries like Syria and Libya at the head of important disarmament
> > > and human rights committees. Infrastructure? The vast
> majority of
> > > it was left standing by the US action, which did NOT resort to heavy
> > > bombing, but rather utilized precision smart bomb strikes against
> > > command posts and troop concentrations as an adjunct to a ground war
> > > that should have forever dispelled the Al Quaeda myth that the US
> > > was a cowardly paper tiger that would turn tail and run in the face
> > > of casualties (although that myth
> > >
> > > was already pretty much already destroyed in Afghanistan). The only
> > > reason that the infrastructure is not completely functional now (and
> > > it operated badly under Saddam, but no one dared complain THEN, did
> > > they?) is as a result of Baathist holdouts and Al Quaeda jihadists
> > > continuously attempting to sabotage it as a means to obstruct the
> > > democratic reconstruction of Iraq, a process that is making great
> > > strides in the Kurdish north and the Shiite south and is only facing
> > > a degree of difficulty in the Sunni triangle which forms Saddam's
> > > power base. As far as lies go, the info. that Dubya's famous
> > > 'sixteen words' was based upon came from British intelligence, and
> > > he did not assert that Saddam had SUCCEEDED in obtaining fissionable
> > > uranium from some African countries; merely that Saddam had SOUGHT
> > > it there - a charge that is almost certainly true.
> WMD's? There is
> > > credible evidence that, following Russian advice, Saddam moved some
> > > of his WMD's to a burial location in the Lebanese bekaa valley and
> > > destroyed others. There is also the evidence of the gas centrifuge
> > > pieces found buried in an Iraqi nuclear scientist's rose garden,
> > > and his testimony that he had been told, by Qusay Hussein (one of
> > > Saddam's late sons) to hide them there until the heat was off, at
> > > which time they would be unearthed and used to purify fissionable
> > > uranium for use in building nuclear weapons. And what would the
> > > purpose of these weapons be? To allow Saddam to threaten any nation
> > > that dared to try to expel him once he completed his next planned
> > > move to take over the Saudi Peninsula (Kuwait was only his first
> > > objective in 1990), and then he could perpetrate global blackmail by
> > > strangulating the world's oil supply. And he would not need long-
> > > range missiles in order to effect such an attack, merely need to
> > > smuggle those weapons inside the borders of his target country and
> > > have them detonated onsite by either his own operatives or members
> > > of terror groups (the same thing he had been doing for years by
> > > paying 10K per Palestinian suicide bomber to their families,
> only writ large).
> > > Now, the question is, why would you, with an obvious lack of
> > > knowledge and study of the relevant issues, make such egregious and
> > > demostrably false claims? I think that it is as a result of
> > > unreasoning hate. In other words, I believe that it is because you
> > > have been infected
> > >
> > > with the "Dubya is the Antichrist" meme, and quite irrationally view
> > > him as worse than Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao combined, and even
> > > worse than the Al Quaedans, who OPENLY wish to destroy all freedoms
> > > of religion, thought, action and choice, and annihilate all traces
> > > of democracy from the entire world, replacing all these with a
> > > repressive global theocratic islamofascist Ummah run according to
> > > sharia law. Let me be clear about this; I am no Dubya-lover. I
> > > consider his borrow-and-spend fiscal policies to be as economically
> > > undermining as the democrats' borrow-and-spend policies (at leat
> > > Clinton realized that even the federal credit card would have to be
> > > eventually paid). I also am distressed by his undermining of
> > > church-state separation, as evinced by his support for religious
> > > school vouchers, federal support for faith-based initiatives, and
> > > opposition to abortion (none of which have passed into law).
> > > However, I agree with his pursuing the terror plotters to their
> > > bases so we have less of a chance of once again seeing them wreak
> > > their carnage on our streets. Iraq is serving as an Al Quaeda
> > > flypaper (although it couldn't function as such without their
> > > cooperation). Let the jihadists journey to Tikrit and fight armed
> > > and alert US troops, rather than journey to the US and massacre
> > > unarmed and clueless civilians on local streets. I do not see a
> > > single Democratic
> > >
> > > candidate that 'gets' this, so, for the first time since I was 18 (I
> > > am 47), I may have to sit the next presidential election out (and
> > > no, I have NEVER voted for a Republican in a presidential election).
> > > Or perhaps it is because you are infected with the "David and
> > > Goliath" meme, and cannot wrap your mind around the concept that
> > > sometimes might and right can indeed occasionally coincide (as ended
> > > up happening in WW II). (Scratching my head and shaking it sadly
> > > all at the same time)...
> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > >
> > > > Jeremy Bradley
> > > > 3200 Oxley Hwy Hartys Plains 2446
> > > > Phone:02 65856652 or 02 65856134
> > > > E-mail: jeremyb@nor.com.au
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ===============================================================
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =============================================================== This
> > > was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of
> > > Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For
> > > information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see:
> > > http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> >
>
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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