From: Scott Chase (ecphoric@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri 20 Jun 2003 - 05:30:27 GMT
>From: Chris Taylor <Christopher.Taylor@man.ac.uk>
>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: Meme definition
>Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:40:44 +0100
>
>Wade what is an 'original' idea then? (And can we try to stay clear of the
>meaning/intentionality minefield plz.) What if you never tell anyone, but
>that (pseudo)original idea recasts everything you previously 'thought'?
>Where does this fit in a model of the interactions of individuals? If
>Performance is not a model of mind (I assume it isn't because you hand off
>to CogPsych at that point), then I suppose it's a non-question, but hey I
>never saw dumbness as a bar to action (although I think I have mild
>Tourette's).
>
If cryptomnesia has a role to play in cultural evolution, creativity may be
an illusion due to forgetting the sources of our "novel" ideas. Where did I
hear that before?
>
>And (from another thread) I must admit to being alarmed by how close
>Dennett turned out to be to the EvoPsych nutters (and, actually, how poor
>his biology was in a couple of places). I would strongly contest the
>assertion that my meme-fundamentalist view leads to robotic determinism -
>we can quite happily have (the illusion of) free will because the
>interactions of our unbelievably complex experiences is effectively
>unpredictable (like the weather). However, like the weather, it is _in
>principle_ predictable if you have literally complete and perfect knowledge
>(which is impossible). And hand-waving quantum excuses for those
>post-dualists who fear the consequences be damned.
>
So if you're dissing Dennett then you might not be the Christopher Taylor he
mentions in _Freedom Evolves_?
For some reason, when I watched the new Matrix movie last night (finally)
along with the hodge podge of idealism (Berkeley's Absolute Mind, Kant's
appearance versus reality and all that), a smidgen of Nietzsche's eternal
recurrence (how many previous instantiations of the matrix occurred previous
to Neo's arrival on the scene), and the gratuitous kung fu fighting scenes,
I couldn't help wonder if Dennett was in their somewhere during the
continuous free will versus determinism debate.
When that French accented guy (nice political timing) in the restaraunt
started arguing about causality I was hoping David Hume would come in a do a
crane technique on him and his albino dred locked buddies. David Hume would
have shredded him to pieces before Neo had a chance to blink...
>
>And 'knock up' yeah lol. Apparently some onetime public school boy at Eton
>announced on the TV in the US that he had been Lord Carrington's fag at
>school...
>
>At that venue :) it means go-fer/gopher if you're wondering.
>
>Cheers, Chris.
>
>Wade T. Smith wrote:
>>
>>On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 06:22 PM, Keith wrote:
>>
>>>>The crux of the matter is that the information must be in a mind in
>>>>order
>>>>for replication to occur.
>>
>>
>>>For the information to have any *real world consequences*, I completely
>>>agree with you it must be in a mind, just like a gene has to be in a cell
>>>for it to have real world consequences.
>>
>>
>>Equine defecations, both of 'em.
>>
>>For anything to have 'real world consequences' it has to consequent the
>>real world- it has to be out here. Information in a mind is nowhere but in
>>a mind. What a farce your model is!
>>
>>The gene in a cell has no real world consequences except to maintain the
>>existence of the body it is in. Only when half of this genetic material
>>combines with half of the genetic material from the disparate sex of the
>>species does change happen. Again, what a farce your model is- as if
>>evolution is happening in one organism.
>>
>>It takes two to tango, and, that means two minds in the real world, not
>>one mind with a bunch of useless facts in it.
>>
>>Hello...?
>>
>>- Wade
>>
>>
>>===============================================================
>>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
>>see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>>
>
>--
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Chris Taylor (chris@bioinf.man.ac.uk)
> http://pedro.man.ac.uk/ »people»chris
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>===============================================================
>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
>see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
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===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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