RE: Imitation or transmission?

From: Montie S. (mschmiege@hotmail.com)
Date: Thu Jun 15 2000 - 02:26:54 BST

  • Next message: Lawrence H. de Bivort: "RE: Imitation or transmission?"

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    From: "Montie S." <mschmiege@hotmail.com>
    To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    Subject: RE: Imitation or transmission?
    Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:26:54 EDT
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        What about day trading? Day trading firms here in the US aggressively
    promoted day trading as a means to make you wealthy. These same firms
    received fees for each transaction that was placed, so it was in their own
    economic self interest to promote day trading. The media even got involved
    and started raving about how easy it was to make it big in the stock market.
      Studies by security regulators have found that most day traders (75%)
    don't turn a profit. This, get rich quick, meme was engineered by the firms
    for the firms.
        Also, have you checked out Information Warfare? The following is a
    pretty good description of what IW is:
        "Information warfare is the offensive and defensive use of information
    and information systems to deny, exploit, corrupt, or destroy, an
    adversary's information, information-based processes, information systems,
    and computer-based networks while protecting one's own. Such actions are
    designed to achieve advantages over military or
    business adversaries."(Dr. Ivan Goldberg)
        I believe that this is very similar to what is called memetic
    engineering although it could be argued that psychological warfare is a much
    better fit with what has been defined for memetic engineering. Do you
    agree, disagree?

    Montie Schmiege

    From: "Joseph" <neohuman@goldenfuture.net>
    Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
    Subject: RE: Imitation or transmission?
    Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 08:20:20 -0400

    Diana Stevenson wrote:

    > I would call all this memetic engineering but maybe I've misunderstood
    the
    > term. Couldn't all propaganda and PR "spin" be regarded as the concious
    > transmission of memes? And what else is advertising and viral marketing?

    To my mind (and admittedly I'm an amateur and a newcomer to the list), these
    "single-shot" examples don't count as true "memetic engineering" because the
    memes involved weren't specifically engineered to self-replicate.

    That is, they rely on a single point of repetitive transmission in order to
    take root in the target audience. The memes in question weren't designed for
    self-replication, they weren't engineered to make themselves more efficient
    at rooting themselves in a host medium. (Memes that are engineered to
    specifically capitalize on these abilities would be "designer memes"; they
    deliberately hit the triggers that make them more likely to be reproduced.)
    I make the same argument in regards to most modern advertising; spitting out
    memes isn't memetic engineering, it's memetic propagation.

    True, elegant, memetic engineering would take advantage of the meme's
    natural tendency to be transmitted and form memeplexes with other memes
    (often ones that on the surface appear to be completely unrelated). National
    Socialism would seem to be an example of a nascent form of this; a complex
    of ideas-- racism, expansionist geopolitics, back-to-nature ideology,
    totalitarianism, the cult of the Leader, etc.-- that work together to
    reinforce one another and are chosen to promote their own replication. I say
    that National Socialism is only a nascent form, because elements of the
    memeplex weren't deliberately chosen, but were grafted on to the memeplex at
    various stages through "natural" means.

    I can't honestly think of a real-world example of the sort of memetic
    engineering I'm talking about, completely using designer memes to effect a
    particular outcome, but I can imagine one. Let's say you want to promote the
    "we should irradiate food" meme among a target population. Step one:
    introduce the "prepackaged food can be dangerous" meme (which hits the
    "danger" trigger). Give it time to penetrate. Step two: introduce the
    "radiation can be safe" meme-- completely unconnected to food, irradiation,
    or anything else-- and give it time to penetrate. Step three: introduce the
    "food can be irradiated to make it safe" meme. When all three of the memes
    hit the same subject-- food is dangerous, radiation is safe, food can be
    irradiated-- they combine to form the "we should irradiate food" meme.

    I realize it's a crude example, but hopefully it illustrates what I would
    mean by the difference between "mere" advertising and true memetic
    engineering. Advertising presents a single meme which relies on repetition
    for reproduction, while memetic engineering uses designer memes that more
    efficiently replicate themselves and self-organizing memeplexes (and ideally
    a combination of the two) to achieve the desired outcome.

    Joseph

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    This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit



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