Re: transmission

From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Wed 21 May 2003 - 23:20:53 GMT

  • Next message: Wade T. Smith: "Re: Tell"

    >
    > On Wednesday, May 21, 2003, at 06:42 PM, Joe wrote:
    >
    > > But that information IS the meme
    >
    > But, it is _not_ the meme in the performance model. Again, you are
    > using one model to judge another, and, well, that ain't fair.
    >
    But that is what's wrong with the performance model; it cannot explain the situations it is tasked to explain, such as how a performance type is retained between expressed tokens of it.
    >
    > > Genes are genes even if they are latent and not expressed
    > > (recessive).
    >
    > Yah, they are. And artifacts are artifacts even if they are latent.
    >
    > But they ain't memetically useful.
    >
    > A latent gene (sitting in a dinosaur egg) is not doing its
    > evolutionary duties, and an extinct artifact (that Tlingit
    > whateveritwas) is not either. They need some cultural venue viagra.
    >
    > It's all still a matter of shifting meanings by position and status
    > with the memeinthemind model. The performance model only has one
    > meaning, in one place, for one purpose, in one state of activity, for
    > _its_ meme. And I like that better.
    >
    And I find that incapable of explaining type similarity. Latent is still existent. the letter is still a letter when it is not yet mailed, or if it never is. A base pair does not cease being a base pair because it inhabits a recessive gene.
    >
    > > Both knowledge and performance are necessary, I have said time and
    > > time again; both the internal and the external are essential;
    > > memetic transfer and evolution cannot transpire without BOTH of
    > > them.
    >
    > I know you've said that time and time again. And what I keep telling
    > you time and time again is this- _in the performance model_, which is
    > _not_ to be judged by the memeinthemind model (which has absolutely
    > _no_ empirical or evidential support and is only a conjecture about
    > how minds work), these two separate things, the information and the
    > performance, are not only separate and unique words, but separate and
    > unique cultural operations and they are kept apart in meaning and
    > utility, and only _one_ of them is the meme. The performance model
    > will not allow one thing to be in two places at once, even with two
    > different names. That they are both necessary for your model is, well,
    > it's a problem, as in the performance model information is _not_
    > necessary, at least the information that is attempted to be
    > transferred by the performer. What one infers from a performance may
    > totally be at odds from the intention (and thus the information being
    > used) of the performer. And, to my mind, saying that intentional
    > information is a necessity is a blind error, of both cultural
    > evolution and ordinary perception. It's a comedian's paradise, the
    > seriously intentioned character who's enormously humorous.
    >
    > You insist upon grey crows, and then ask me to eat them. I still say
    > you have to find one first if not bake four and twenty of them into a
    > pie.
    >
    And you keep confusing the letter with the postal service, which is why, I guess, you still obstinately refuse to sign for your crowpie delivery. Thge performance is an ENCODING of the meme; the selfsame meme may be encoded by showing, telling and writing, even though they are vastly different performances. This commonality of intended meaning perduring through a plurality of nonrelational actions is something that your model cannot wrap its methodology around, and I sincerely doubt that it shall ever be able to do so. But the cognitive model can and does; the UR-encoding is cognitive, and all the various performances
    (showing, telling, writing) are different saying-modes (translations) of it.
    >
    > - Wade
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ===============================================================
    > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    >

    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit

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