Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id UAA05168 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 6 Jun 2000 20:05:05 +0100 From: Robin Faichney <robin@faichney.demon.co.uk> Organization: Reborn Technology To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Criticisms of Blackmore's approach Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 18:36:36 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.21] Content-Type: text/plain References: <20000605234909.85676.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-Id: <00060618575300.00526@faichney> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On Tue, 06 Jun 2000, Diana Stevenson wrote:
>Recently Richard Brodie wrote:
>
><<Beyond that, imitation is only a small part of memetics, one that
>Blackmore
>focuses on and has been criticized for. I think many of the interesting ways
>memes spread cannot be classified as imitation, but rather teaching and
>learning or even unwitting conditioning.>
>
>Does anyone on the list know of any published criticism of Blackmore's focus
>on imitation only, or any idea of where in the list archives I can find this
>discussion? It would be useful for me to have some sources for this.
Can't help there. It's the first I've heard of such criticism. But I'll take
this opportunity to reply to Richard's point, as I missed it first time around,
and I'm one of those who emphasise imitation.
I don't think anyone is saying that memes only spread by actual imitation of
behaviour, but imitation is very important, because it is so basic.
What we are talking about is the replication of behavioural patterns, or of
their counterparts in the brain, depending on which of the two main schools
of memetics you belong to. Because, as yet, the only actual evidence we
have for brain-stored patterns is in behaviour, that's what we have to look
at, either way. I don't see how anyone could argue with the fact that
direct imitation of actual behaviour is the most direct way in which a meme
could replicate. One person does something, another observes, and then
does the same thing, though they'd never done it before. What could be
more simple? Absolutely nothing. So: imitation is the most direct means
of memetic transmission.
So what are the other means? I'd suggest, all the ways we communicate
with each other, from speech and writing to the fine arts. And sure, much
more memetic transmission happens through these channels these days than
via direct imitation. But: how did these channels get up-and-running? This
is a boot-strapping question: how do people learn to communicate in these
relatively sophisticated ways, if not from other people? Of course, they
*do* learn from other people, but via less sophisticated channels, and the
least sophisticated of all, upon which all others are based, is simple
imitation. It's so basic, even premature babies do it! (According to studies
the details of which I don't have to hand just now.)
That's why it's hardly possible to over-emphasise imitation in memetics.
-- Robin Faichney===============================This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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