Re: Memes For Peace-at-any-Price, including slavery, torture and mass murder.

From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Sun 09 Mar 2003 - 19:37:31 GMT

  • Next message: Keith Henson: "Re: memetics-digest V1 #1307"

    > At 09:53 PM 9/03/03 +1100, Bruce wrote:
    > Snip......................
    > While I tend to agree with Joe on the humanitarian aspect of the Iraq
    > situation, there are other issues implicit in the wording of Bryan's
    > post which cause concern. The least not being the concept of "memetic
    > engineering", which I think is an oxymoron. Even the opposing forces
    > within the memetics definition debate agree that a meme is a cultural
    > unit.
    > Is not culture the conglomerate of inherited ideas, beliefs, values
    > and
    > knowledge? Have not all attempts to overtly "engineer" culture
    > failed?
    >
    >
    > Jeremy's reply:
    > I don't think so Bruce, hasn't Hollywood been active in the production
    > of memes which reach out across the globe? Is this not memetic
    > engineering? When I was living with an Indigenous Australian group
    > which had not had a lot of outside contact, the change in children's
    > behaviour was observable when they got a VCR and started watching
    > USAnian crap. For me, memetic engineering is akin to propaganda, but
    > it operates at a more subtle level. If we look at the Nazi regime's
    > manipulation of art and theatre, we can see this effect, and, dare I
    > say, it is observable in poor Joe's foaming at the mouth replies to
    > any critique of his beloved USAnia's war on Islam. Making war to
    > create peace is an oxymoron and can never work.
    >
    A knee-jerk dogmatic and untrue statement. It worked in Japan, Germany, Bosnia, Kosovo, East Timor, is working in Afghanistan and will work in Iraq. And yes, I love my country, because it provides me with the freedoms that it does, freedoms that are almost entirely absent in totalitarian theocracies. But it is not a US war against Islam, but rather against a violent and virulent convert, submit or die mutation of the faith, a mutation which is embraced by only about a tenth of Muslims.
    >
    > War, especially such a
    > one sided war, will perpetuate violence and only profit arms dealers.
    >
    It'll profit millions of iraqis who will be liberated from the iron deathgrip of a fascist despot.
    >
    > Sorry to be lurking for so long all. And Joe, don't worry, I am far
    > too busy to reply too much at the moment as I am running an election
    > campaign. But, to quote a great USanian memetic construct, I'll be
    > back. Jeremy the do-gooder
    >
    Do good for whom? Certainly not for the Iraqi people.
    >
    > Jeremy Bradley - The Greens' Candidate in Oxley
    > 3200 Oxley Hwy Wauchope 2446
    > Phone:02 65856652 or 02 65856134
    > Mobile: 0428 856134
    > E-mail: jeremyb@nor.com.au
    >
    > ===============================================================
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    > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    >

    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit



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