From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Wed 05 Mar 2003 - 08:10:44 GMT
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> >From: joedees@bellsouth.net
> >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >Subject: Re: memetics-digest V1 #1299
> >Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 01:00:27 -0600
> >
> >
> > > >From: "Grant Callaghan" <grantc4@hotmail.com>
> > > >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > >To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > >Subject: Re: memetics-digest V1 #1299
> > > >Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 07:44:21 -0800
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >> If you reproduced one of the artifacts
> > > >left by an Indian tribe to the degree that it couldn't be
> > > >distinguished from the original, wouldn't you have received the
> > > >information contained in the making of it?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>No. Please explain how I could? Xerox is not culture.
> > > >
> > > >I didn't see where anybody claimed that it was. On the other
> > > >hand, xerox is an intimate part of modern culture.
> > > >
> > > >But if you were talking about an artifact such as a clay bowl or
> > > >a stone ax head, for example, and you went out and gathered the
> > > >same kind of clay and formed that clay in the same way and
> > > >decorated it with the same designs and fired it at the same
> > > >temperature, you would have learned a thing or two about how the
> > > >tribe accomplished the task themselves.
> > > >
> > > >There are anthropologists today who study the art of working
> > > >stone to
> > > > produce the same artifacts they find in the earth in order to
> > > >understand the culture that produced them. I guess you would say
> > > >they are wasting their time and aren't likely to learn anything
> > > >about
> > > > that culture.
> > > >
> > > >As you might guess, I disagree
> > > >
> > > All the work they do is valuable, but wouldn't you agree that
> > > there are limits on what can be gained? It's kinda like the fosil
> > > record, there's stuff that's been found and some details fleshed
> > > out but still much presently unknown and possibly lost forever.
> > >
> > > With artifacts am I right in asumng that lots of stuff doesn't
> > > stick around long? Leave a piece of paper with writing in a marsh
> > > somewhere and come back in a decade. I've seen rceipts in my desk
> > > that after a relatively short perion of time are unintellible due
> > > to yellow or ink fade. How well do wooden artifacts hold up
> > > compared to stone or metal? And let's not forget how word of mouth
> > > may die with those who spoke of it and how artifacts are only part
> > > of the story. Somme dude named Umbojimbo may have possessed a
> > > stone axe long ago, but without critical compenents of his
> > > cultural milieu, how much can you extrapolate about Umbojimbo and
> > > his pals and their culture in general? The artiacts found are an
> > > index to what their culture was, but not the whole story,
> > > something washed away by the tides of history as it marches along.
> > > Who was Umbojimbo? You may find some of his artifacts and maybe
> > > his skull or femur, but what do you really know about him?
> > >
> >This argument is kinda like saying that unless exact genetic
> >replication occurs, that the theory of evolution is flawed. But it
> >is precisely the natural selection between natural occurring
> >deviances that allows for evolution to occur. The difference is
> >that, in memetics, those deviations (mutations) may be intended, and
> >indeed engineered - as can be the selection.
> >
> I was referring to limitations of using artificats to extrapolate
> about the culture from which these artifacts came. I have knoe idea
> what you're getting at in relation to what I wrote, but would point
> out that wth evolution selection isn't the whole story. Maybe you like
> to jump to conclusions based on simplified information.
>
Some things are not sufficient, but they are nevertheless necessary.
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> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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