Re: Sue Blackmore lecture Wednesday 5.15pm London

From: Scott Chase (ecphoric@hotmail.com)
Date: Thu 20 Feb 2003 - 04:11:43 GMT

  • Next message: joedees@bellsouth.net: "Memetic Dogma"

    >From: Keith Henson <hkhenson@rogers.com>
    >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    >To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    >Subject: Re: Sue Blackmore lecture Wednesday 5.15pm London
    >Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:36:15 -0500
    >
    >snip
    >
    >
    >> > Poppycock. What about the "meme's eye view"? I thought (oops a meme in
    >> > my head caused me to think) that it's not us having memes, but that
    >> > it's all about the memes having us. Conscious "choice", volition, or
    >> > "free will" is nothing more than a castle in the sky, a meme that has
    >> > captured us in its net and caused us to "think" (whatver that empty
    >> > word means) that we have "control".
    >> >
    >>The 'meme's eye view' is as much of a fiction as the 'gene's eye view',
    >>the 'God's eye view' and the 'stone's eye view'.
    >> >
    >> > "I" am not "me". "I" am an automaton driven by a collection of mental
    >> > contagions, deluded that "I've" a "self" there. That's what the memes
    >> > want me to "think" ;)
    >
    >ROTFLMAO (Rolling on the floor laughing my ass off) Stones with eyes yet.
    >
    >>If you think that memes WANT ANYTHING, much less for you to think a
    >>certain thing, even the information they contain, then you have a
    >>homuncular misunderstanding of memetics. But I doubt that you think
    >>that. I think you were being sarcasticly humorous, and if so, you did a
    >>reasonable job of lampooning the misunderstandings of some in the
    >>field.
    >
    >You been trolled, and missed the wink ;)
    >
    >Keith Henson
    >
    >(Though funny as it is, it captures a corner of reality. :-) )
    >
    >
    Joe wasn't trolled. He caught the wink and knows me well enough that he recognized my disdain for memetic marionette views. That you see a corner of reality captured shows my satire wasn't too far off base after all.

    My contention with Joe would be that if he asserts volition or conscious choice and that memes don't have people, instead of vice versa, at what point does his view diverge from memetics.

    Memetic purity is a good starting point for demolition and Benzon seems to be gearing up his wrecking ball.

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