Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id MAA18309 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 3 Jun 2000 12:04:44 +0100 From: Robin Faichney <robin@faichney.demon.co.uk> Organization: Reborn Technology To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Jabbering ! Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 09:02:13 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.21] Content-Type: text/plain References: <3937D449.4110CB30@mediaone.net> Message-Id: <00060311421600.00520@faichney> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On Fri, 02 Jun 2000, Chuck wrote:
>Robin Faichney wrote:
>
>> A definition of culture that fits perfectly with memetics, though it
>> might not satisfy your "cultural intuitions" (intuitions about culture,
>> derived from culture) is very simple: imitation of behaviour. To fill
>> that out a little: species that are both social, and sufficiently
>> intelligent, can learn cooperatively -- what one individual learns
>> directly from experience can be passed on to others so that they get
>> the benefit without having to go through the experience.
>
>I would like to know of any individual that consistently takes on cultural
>behavior through such imitation. Any culture I have ever been in has a lot of
>trouble getting people in that culture to simply imitate behavior as a shortcut
>to experience. In fact, we have lots of trouble with our young because they
>won't act in such an automated fashion. If only we had robots for kids - things
>would be so much easier. The saying "Experience is the best teacher" is
>probably universal.
And it is so because people know it's not the only teacher. Don't allow your
preferences to blind you to the facts. It's very clear that you're an
individualist, but that doesn't mean we're all isolated. Culture *requires*
imitation, in absolute terms. The beginnings of speech are in the infant's
attempt to imitate sounds they hear others make. Of course there are other
important factors, but imitation is essential. Likewise, children, if you
spend much time watching them, are always imitating things they've seen
adults do. Teenagers, at the stage when they're developing their own
identity, will naturally react against adult preaching. But they tend to
be very conformist within their own peer group.
It seems clear that imitation is something we're genetically programmed to
do. Even premature neonates "model" vocal and facial gestures. But does
that mean they're robots? I don't think so, *either* because they're
doing what their genes tell them to, *or* because what they're doing is
imitating. And generally, you don't view action based on genetic
predispositions as robotic, do you? So why why view memetically
influenced behaviour that way?
I never did any practical stuff in school -- I think Americans call it "shop" --
metalwork, woodwork and the like, but I picked up a great deal from watching my
father work on the car and do DIY around the house. Of course, once you start to
do something yourself, you learn a lot more. Experience is essential for the
development of any skill. But without imitating others, having to reinvent
absolutely everything, we'd hardly have any skills at all.
And, culture is not just about imitation -- that's merely the basis of it. Once
communication skills have been developed, ideas and behaviours travel via the
written and spoken word. But they're still replicating -- it's just happening at
a more abstract level than direct behavioural imitation.
Experience could be the best possible teacher, and imitation the worst, but
culture would still be based upon it and absolutely impossible without it.
-- Robin Faichney===============================This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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