RE: Another Example of the Radical Islam Memeplex

From: Lawrence DeBivort (debivort@umd5.umd.edu)
Date: Sun 15 Dec 2002 - 14:45:11 GMT

  • Next message: Lawrence DeBivort: "RE: Examples of the Radical Islamicist Memeplex"

    Good morning, Scott,

    Yes, there was an element in Lawrence of condescension toward the Arabs. He viewed them as quarrelsome, childlike, illogical, capable of cruelty. And he viewed them as pure, courageous, heroic, intuitively 'right', honorable, loyal. I think the mix of opinions reflected Lawrence's experiences in the moment: sometimes things were going great, sometimes they were falling apart. And sometimes the Arabs were simply just not enough like the British. But when Lawrence was back in Cairo, his contempt for the British there was even stronger, and the purity and integrity of the desert Arab would again appeal to him. I think, also, that his different remarks reflected different experience with the pseudo-Europeanized Arabs of the big cities and those with the desert Arabs -- and indeed there was (and is) a big cultural difference between them. His last great interaction with the Arabs was in Damascus, which was very frustrating for him for many reasons. After that, he only worked with Faisal and the Arab delegates to the post-WWI peace conferences. The post-war political situation was immensely frustrating to Lawrence, and he blames part of the failure there on Arab diplomatic ineffectiveness and squabbling, and the qualities that the quote you point to summarizes.

    Additioonal statements along those lines can be found in his Letters, in PILLARS, etc.

    BTW: does anyone here have a copy of Oriental Travels or Oriental Assembly that you would like to sell? I'd like to buy it.

    Best regards, Lawry

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
    > Of Scott Chase
    > Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 2:38 AM
    > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    > Subject: RE: Another Example of the Radical Islam Memeplex
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > >From: Jeremy Bradley <jeremyb@nor.com.au>
    > >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    > >To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    > >Subject: RE: Another Example of the Radical Islam Memeplex
    > >Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 14:20:49 +1100
    > >
    > >At 06:36 PM 14/12/02 -0600, you wrote:
    > > >> Thanks for letting us know you are a MEMRI supporter, Joe.
    > > >>
    > > >You're welcome; I'm interested in equine information from the horses'
    > > >mouths.
    > >
    > >Equine information would be good, (I even like the way it sounds
    > a bit like
    > >'equity'), I think that is what Lawry wants - primary sources. And please
    > >don't get upset by our request, we just want to be sure that
    > your 'equine'
    > >information is not 'bovine' information; from the bull's bum (ass in
    > >USAnian).
    > >Jeremy
    > >
    > >
    > What would Lawry or yourself think of someone who opined the following
    > unflattering bit of prose on the Arabs?:
    >
    > (bq) "They are a limited narrow-minded people whose inert intellects lie
    > incuriously fallow." (eq)
    >
    > This happens to come from an introduction by that great Arabist T.E.
    > Lawrence to Charles Doughty's book _Travels in Arabia Deserta_
    > (1953. George
    > Macy Companies, Heritage Press. New York, p. xvii).
    >
    > Of course how much of what Lawrence wrote should be taken all too
    > seriously?
    > That's primary sources for you. MEMRI he wasn't.
    >
    > >From what I've read of his biography at the hands of authors
    > like Lawrence
    > James and Suleiman Mousa, his first hand accounts are to be taken with a
    > grain of salt. Damascus anyone?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > _________________________________________________________________
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    >
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    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit

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