From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Sun 08 Dec 2002 - 10:28:16 GMT
> >> > Snip......Grant:
> >> >> for example, seems to mark the begining and end of the
> >> >> dynosaurs. Mitocondrial eve marks the beginning of mankind.
> >> >> This way of looking at the universe seems so engrained in our
> >> >> nature that it must occupy some deeper place in our makeup than
> >> >> a cultural meme.
> >> >>
> >> >> Grant
> >> >>
> Jeremy:
> >> > I don't think so Grant cos some cultures, mostly ones that we
> >> > have defeated, had achieved stability and sustainability within
> >> > their environments. These folk view 'development' as undesirable
> >> > or bad. For them harmony with the nature that they found
> >> > themselves in was the primary goal of existence. In all cases
> >> > that I have found, such cultures have narrative patterning and
> >> > content which predicates this cultural 'norm'. That's the short
> >> > answer. Jeremy
> >>
> Grant:
> >> Not many cultures that I am aware of have achieved this stability
> >> with their environment, unless you include the possibility of 'die
> >> back' when things are scarce. Most cultures expand to the extent of
> >> their resources. If Hitler was not aware of this we would have been
> >> spared WWII.
> >>
> Joe:
> >Other examples of environmentally suicidal indigenous tribes are the
> >ancient Easter Islanders and the Anasazi indians of the American
> >southwest. It is a meme and a myth, kinda like the old 'noble
> >savage', 'ancient sage' saw, that older cultures were always wiser.
> >>
>
>
> Jeremy:
> Look Joe, I know that I am a devout environmentalist but the only
> culture that I am aware of which could be described as
> "environmentally suicidal" is our modern industrial one. Just to touch
> the edges, if the 'developing nations' were to 'develop' to the stage
> that the affluent West has it would cost us another three planets
> worth of resources, and the pollution would have killed us long before
> that anyway. Peace, simplicity, and environmental care are what we
> need for sustainability. If we could achieve those goals I would say
> that we had reached a highly evolved state. Only low animals foul
> their surroundings and waste their resources Joe. I am not saying,
> "older cultures were always wiser". What I am saying is that it is a
> meme and a myth that newer cultures are always wiser. Jeremy
>
I just point out those two cultures as examples of cultures that killed
themselves through depleting their available resources. It is a simple
fact that they did, and they died; that makes them suicidal, even if
unintentionally so.
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sun 08 Dec 2002 - 10:30:08 GMT