RE: Cui Bono Chuck?

From: Vincent Campbell (v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk)
Date: Fri Jun 02 2000 - 11:46:59 BST

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    From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk>
    To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
    Subject: RE: Cui Bono Chuck?
    Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:46:59 +0100 
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    I'd agree with you here on the main point about what memetics is about.

    As I've said before elsewhere, I'd be very wary of simple uses of media
    related examples. I'm sure you didn't necessarily mean it that way, but
    there isn't a simple relationship between media coverage and audience
    behaviour. (I think memetics may provide an organisational framework for
    media effects, though, and indeed the meme of media effects itself, that
    most people seem to have).

    Vincent

    > ----------
    > From: Paul marsden
    > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    > Sent: Friday, June 2, 2000 8:36 am
    > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    > Subject: Re: Cui Bono Chuck?
    >
    > >So perhaps you can explain to me why Aaron finds an advantage to memic
    > >theory in explaining birth rates?
    >
    > Aaron is a vociferous defender of his own model, but the purchase or
    > insight
    > that he offered was that in addition to being a product of
    > a) an ultimate rationale of inclusive genetic fitness
    > b) constraints and opportunities provided by economic relations
    >
    > there is a third stance or perspective
    >
    > c)in which cultural instructions may be understood as influencing
    > fertility
    > levels.
    >
    > Catholics do have more children than Protestants. Likewise, without
    > invoking cultural influences its damned difficult to explain blood
    > donation
    > or any other anonymous charity - but a memetic theory of altruism can do
    > this. See Paul Allison's excellent account of this.
    >
    > Although most social scientists would boggle at all this and say of course
    >
    > culture has an influence independent of genes (and more problematically
    > economic relations), unless, that is, they are into crude genetic
    > reductionism/determinism or economic determinism, but what memetics does
    > is
    > to bring a particular organising principle and focus into cultural
    > dynamics:
    >
    > SPECIFICALLY - SOME CULTURE SELF-EMPLACES, THAT IS, ITS EFFECTS ARE
    > CONDUCIVE TO ITS OWN REPRODUCTION. IN OTHER WORDS, MANIFESTING A CULTURAL
    >
    > INSTRUCTION BEHAVIOURALLY CAN MAKE THE RECURRENCE OF THAT CULTURAL
    > INSTRUCTION MORE LIKELY BECAUSE THE ENVIRONMENT HAS BEEN MODIFIED IN SUCH
    > A
    > WAY TO ALLOW FOR THIS CHANGE.
    >
    > And no, this is not a panacea for social science, it is just one more way
    > of
    > looking at some aspects of the world to try and make sense of what is
    > going
    > on - there are many ways to skin a cat. Maybe this memetic stance doesn't
    >
    > help you, but it has helped me understand suicide, and the peculiar
    > phenomenon of suicide contagion (suicide levels jump by up to 10%
    > following
    > media coverage of celebrity suicides)
    >
    >
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    >
    > ===============================================================
    > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    >

    ===============================================================
    This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit



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