RE: Islam and Europe

From: Lawrence DeBivort (debivort@umd5.umd.edu)
Date: Sun 24 Nov 2002 - 05:43:19 GMT

  • Next message: joedees@bellsouth.net: "RE: Why Europe is so Contrary"

    Hi, Richard,

    To put this matter of harmony and tolerance into (my) perspective: I believe that there is a time for harmony, and a time for war. There have been times when I have engaged in either. It is a pragmatic issue for me, as one can achieve things that the other can't. Wisdom lies in knowing which is more likely to work than the other. And, in turn, wisdom depends in part on knowledge.

    My fundamental goal is to facilitate the evolution of our species towards higher levels of capability and well-being. Generally, I do believe that harmony and tolerance will get us there far better than intolerance and war, though along the way we may well be called upon to engage in the latter. And it is quite possible for people to believe in the same goal, but espouse different strategies to attain it. The key thing is to maintain useful debate, so that we can, even while disagreeing, learn from and with each other.

    I know -- motherhood and apple pie! All I can say is, I've loved fatherhood and love apple pie.

    Cheers, Lawry

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
    > Of Richard Brodie
    > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 11:04 PM
    > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    > Subject: RE: Islam and Europe
    >
    >
    > Joe wrote:
    >
    > <<You're talking attitude engineering and self-programmed control;
    > Richard Brodie is deeply into this, and he has some good points to
    > make - my only problem with his position is that he seems to value
    > comforting lies over unsettling truths, and I would rather be a Socrates
    > unsatisfied than a satisfied newage white-light fluffybunny (not that I am
    > imputing either of those positions to you). For me, on a deeper level,
    > knowing is more important than feeling good, if they must come into
    > conflict.>>
    >
    > I'm flattered you've familiarized yourself with my philosophical
    > meanderings. It's not for the sake of comfort that I suggest
    > choosing memes
    > that aren't obviously true... it's for the sake of what you consider most
    > important. For you, deep knowing is apparently of major importance. For
    > others, it is not. I think Lawry, for example, values harmony and
    > tolerance
    > far more than you do. The memes he chooses may support that, and
    > he may not
    > pay much attention to points of view that lead to the conclusion that a
    > certain culture is irreparably anathema to our own. If his chosen
    > purpose in
    > life is to be a force for harmony and tolerance, he will
    > naturally come into
    > conflict with someone such as you who puts forth such a barrage
    > of evidence
    > counter to his core values.
    >
    > I appreciate the value both of you bring to this discussion.
    >
    > Richard Brodie
    > www.memecentral.com
    >
    >
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