Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id LAA05737 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:55:00 +0100 Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745891@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Primate Rights Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:52:54 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
This point doeson't seem quite right to me, mainly because of the ape
culture question.
My point was, and I'm prepared to be corrected on this, was that apes do not
use a structured form of sign language in the wild, so just because they can
do it in the lab when it is taught to them is irrelevant. They undoubtedly
use complex forms of non-verbal communication, along with calls etc. but
that is not the same thing.
Exactly the same is true of art- put the tools in front of them and some
apes will paint in the lab, but they do not create art in the wild. (Or do
they- anyone know of any studies on this kind of thing?)
Vincent
> ----------
> From: Bruce Jones
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 6:05 pm
> To: 'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'
> Subject: RE: Primate Rights
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bill Spight [SMTP:bspight@pacbell.net]
> > Subject: Re: Primate Rights
> >
> > Dear Lawrence,
> >
> > > I wonder why chimpanzes would not have grammar in the wild. Is the
> > > suggestion that they 'learn' grammatical construction from their human
> > > contacts?
> [BJ] Who says there is no grammatical construction in a chimps
> language? Grammatical syntax is culture and language dependent. English
> differs from German, Russian, Arabic, etc. based on the culture of the
> language. Until someone speaks fluent "native" chimpanzee we will not be
> able to determine the structure of the language.
> When you learn a new language do you always get the syntax correct?
> Probably not because you are building your interpretation of the language
> on
> your own languages syntax .... same with chimps.
> [BJ]
> IMHO
>
> Bruce Jones
>
>
>
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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