RE: The ISIS site

From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Sun 10 Nov 2002 - 21:27:02 GMT

  • Next message: Grant Callaghan: "Re: Islamic beliefs and their memetic sources"

    > Well, I dare say that you have another Daniel Pipes in mind than the
    > one I do, and with whose writings I am quite familiar. Is
    > 'pro-Zionism' anti-semitic? Some advocates of Israel assert so, but I
    > disagree. One can be critical of Zionism without being critical of
    > Judaism, wouldn't you agree?
    >
    You meant "Is ANTI-Zionism antisemitic?" I'm sure. Yes, one can be critical of one without being critical of the other, but most who try end up crossing the line by quantums. And I am quite familiar myself with Daniel Pipes' writings, as well as the scurrilous attacks leveled against him by CAIR; Pipes' targets of criticism, militant radical Muslims, wish to portray him as being against not only them, but against all Muslims, but it simply isn't true.
    >
    > I don't know if you are aware that Ibn Warraq is an alias. Do you
    > know who the author really is? I would like to know, before blindly
    > accepting the credentials with which he has clothed himself. Would it
    > not be prudent to know, before taking his arguments on faith?
    >
    Of course it is an alias (the name is one that belonged to a historical Muslim freethinker); if he put out his actual name and address, he'd be fatwa'ed and murdered as fast as jihadists could manage it. He rejected his faith; that is an Islamic capital offense. I have the boook, have read it, and can testify to its excellence and courageousness, as also does the person who wrote the foreword - R. Joseph Hoffmann, Westminster College, Oxford. One must also not fall prey to the 2500-year-old ad hominem fallacy, and instead evaluate the points made on their merits rather than on their author's identity; and the points made withstand scrutiny impeccably.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Lawry
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On
    > Behalf Of joedees@bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 4:00
    > PM To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: RE: The ISIS site
    >
    > > A site, interestingly, not above quoting from that notorious
    > > anti-Islamic, pro-Zionist writer, Daniel Pipes!
    > >
    > Daniel Pipes is not anti-Islamic; he IS anti-Radical Militant Islam,
    > as anyone with a modicum of sense, even other Islamics, logically
    > should be. > > It makes me wonder who the real owner of the site
    > is.... > Disaffected Muslim secularists, in association with the
    > Council for Secular Humanism, publisher of Free Inquiry magazine (or
    > are you planting an antisemitic or anti-Israel insinuendo? Well, it
    > ain't true.). Ibn Warraq, author of the critically acclaimed WHY I AM
    > NOT A MUSLIM (the title being an homage to Bertrand Russell's WHY I AM
    > NOT A CHRISTIAN), as well as many other academic studies of Islam and
    > its historical roots, is one of the prime forces behind it. > > But to
    > the point of secularism within Islam - yup, it is a live and > vibrant
    > movement within the Muslim world, and it parallels similar >
    > secularist movements in other areas of the world. Again, Karen >
    > Armstrong's book BATTLE FOR GOD, is excellent on the flip side, >
    > fundamentalism. > > Cheers, > Lawry > > -----Original Message----- >
    > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On >
    > Behalf Of joedees@bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 3:08 >
    > PM To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: The ISIS site > > The best way to
    > investigate the site is to peruse the site map at: >
    > http://www.secularislam.org/sitemap.htm > >
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    > =============================================================== > This
    > was distributed via the memetics list associated with the > Journal of
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    > http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit >
    >
    >
    >
    > ===============================================================
    > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    >
    >
    >
    > ===============================================================
    > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    >

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