Re: I know one when I see one

From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Fri 01 Nov 2002 - 20:49:10 GMT

  • Next message: Van oost Kenneth: "Re: electric meme bombs"

    > >
    > > On Friday, November 1, 2002, at 11:43 , Grant Callaghan wrote:
    > >
    > > > When I pass a meme to the meme pool, I usually visualize the idea
    > > > and then try to find the right words to create a similar picture
    > > > in the minds of the people I'm sending it to.
    > >
    > > Try, yes. Attempt, yes. Finding the right words, placing the right
    > > feet in the right place, the fingers in the correct alignment, all
    > > attempts.
    > >
    > > There is no direct connection between the action and the mind. Joe
    > > can giveThere is a plethora of sensations and activities between the
    > > cup and the lip, regardless of how badly you want to drink.
    > >
    > > 'Passing the meme', to the pemetic model, and to me, personally, is
    > > a meaningless statement.
    > >
    > > Attempting to perform it, yes.
    > >
    > > If you do it well, I can attempt to perform it again, using my own
    > > skill set. If our skill sets are matched, it could well be
    > > undistinguishable from your performance, with the one difference
    > > being that someone else did it.
    > >
    > > With pemetic (yeah, I bellied over and flipped that letter)
    > > performances of simple actions with unsophisticated skill sets, the
    > > chances of indistinguishability are very large. Speech is such a
    > > thing in performance, or folk dances, or childhood songs, (although,
    > > as we know, memory has problems with sounds...), and they can easily
    > > be archived as printed artifacts called words, so that anyone with
    > > the skill set of reading can perform them in separation from the
    > > actual memory of them. This is a simple explanation of how cultures
    > > continue through artifacts, although there are many other
    > > continuation forces at work and a compounding of them over time.
    > >
    > > But, this model really does insist that each performance is unique,
    > > and that there is no meme (although there is memory, even, yes,
    > > Joe's meme-ory, aka the self) in the mind. Certainly nothing getting
    > > 'passed'. And, while I do object to the scatological connotations to
    > > that word, I have other, more dire, objections to the concept of the
    > > memeinthemind model.
    > >
    > Pemes would necessarily have to be tokens of meme types.
    > >
    To phrase it in Chomskyan terms, there is a distinction between language performance and language competence. Language performance is found in each instance of verbal discourse, and can only reflect a part of the whole, which is the individual's language competence, i. e. the internally stored knowledge of vocabulary, definitions, semantics and syntax which comprise the individual's command of the language/symbol system, and upon which the individual draws to engage in each language performance.
    >
    > > - Wade
    > >
    > >
    > > =============================================================== This
    > > was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of
    > > Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For
    > > information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see:
    > > http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    > ===============================================================
    > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    >

    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit



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