Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id MAA12749 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 26 May 2000 12:56:31 +0100 Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745877@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Shaving Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 12:54:34 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Ddin't the Spartans also go into battle naked apart from a few pieces of
armour?
> ----------
> From: havelock
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 1:04 pm
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: Shaving
>
> Alexander adapted that from the Spartans - a meme perhaps. The spartans
> shaved the front of their heads and let their hair grow long at the back
> so
> that in battle their fringe could not be grasped when attacked. If they
> fled from battle it would be easy to grab them from behind. By natural
> selection only the brave would survive a battle...very Darwinian.
>
> The Spartans had a very militant (ie death) orientated society. Herodotus
> records that before battle they took great care to comb their hair.
> Combing
> ones hair is a symbol of rebirth. Hair shares symbolic characteristics
> with
> other regenerative symbols such as snakes (shedding skin, vegetation
> (regrowth), etc. all associated with the otherworld. In prepartion for
> death they combed their hair. So for these peoples the combing of hair
> had
> a great socio-semiotic value.
>
> Beards don't have to be sign of pacifism. In medieval europe the beards
> of
> vassals were grasped by lords as a sign of domination...not pacifism.
> These
> same vassals after oath taking went into battle. A similar thing to
> shaking
> hands - if you use your right hand you can't conceal a weapon.
>
> The only really modern disadvantage of not being able to grow a beard is
> that you will never be mistaken for George Michael and if you go bald the
> counterweight look is out...
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> > Of Vincent Campbell
> > Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 9:02 PM
> > To: 'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'
> > Subject: RE: Shaving
> >
> >
> > In a way what we're talking about here is semiotics- the
> > denotative function
> > of beards- what do they stand for.
> >
> > Chuck's example of increasing head size to improve status (this works
> for
> > hats too presumably), or covering facial expression to hide emotion,
> seems
> > reasonable.
> >
> > Your example offers an equally interesting and no less reasonable
> > explanation, in that bearded people give an attacker an
> > advantage, so it can
> > be worn now as a mark of pacificism.
> >
> > I believe in Japan beards aren't highly thought of, in terms of social
> > status (one of my students told me about a controversial news
> > presenter who
> > came back off a long break with a beard, and their was much public
> debate
> > about it).
> >
> > It's also seen in some societies as a mark of wisdom (hence lots of
> > academics have them).
> >
> > In the recent contest for the first ever elected London mayor, the
> > government's candidate (who lost by a huge amount incidentally)
> > had a beard,
> > and it emerged early in the campaign that the government's spin
> > doctors had
> > tried to persuade the candidate to shave his beard off, because it
> wasn't
> > seen as a good 'look' for a politician.
> >
> > But, and here's my question, finally, what about those of us who
> > can't grow
> > beards? I can get long stubble but never a full beard. Does
> > this mean I'm
> > semiotically trapped into being low status and/or agressive in Western
> > societies, but acceptable in Japan?
> >
> > Another interesting aspect of marginalia in human behaviour which seems
> to
> > offer massive variety in potential meaning- so why do some
> > meanings persist
> > and not others?
> >
> > Vincent
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From: Wade T.Smith
> > > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 6:17 am
> > > To: Memetics Discussion List
> > > Subject: Re: Shaving
> > >
> > > >I'm
> > > >pretty sure there is a history of beards - it may be mixed in with
> > > clothing.
> > >
> > > There is really only one reason I wear a beard, and have, since
> > I could,
> > > which has been about 30 years now.
> > >
> > > And it is an old reason.
> > >
> > > And, as far as I know, it is historically correct.
> > >
> > > And the reason is this- Alexander was the first to command that his
> > > soldiers shave their beards, since having a beard provided an enemy,
> in
> > > the type of close quarter fighting that was common with swords and
> hand
> > > weapons, a purchase, a handle, especially to raise the chin for the
> > > purpose of throat cutting. So, a soldier in Alexander's army was
> > > close-shaven.
> > >
> > > And so, to me, the beard has always been the mark of the pacifist.
> > >
> > > And that is why I wear one.
> > >
> > > - Wade
> > >
> > > ===============================================================
> > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > >
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> >
> >
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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