Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id DAA08289 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 26 Apr 2002 03:25:05 +0100 X-Originating-IP: [209.240.222.132] From: "Scott Chase" <ecphoric@hotmail.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Bush's War on Terrorism Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 22:19:09 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F1903LSW50Pfs56PHoD00002387@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Apr 2002 02:19:10.0317 (UTC) FILETIME=[C01301D0:01C1ECC8] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be>
>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>To: <kennethvanoost@myrealbox.com>
>Subject: Re: Bush's War on Terrorism
>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:26:32 +0200
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Grant Callaghan <grantc4@hotmail.com>
> > The Muslims are little better armed now than they were then. Just
>buying
> > weapons doesn't make them well armed any more than buying boxing gloves
> > makes someone a boxer. It's the years of training and the ability to
>think
> > in modern terms that gives the Israelis the edge and like I've said
>before,
> > the Muslims want to take us back a few centuries. It's the changes the
> > Western nations are making to the world they're really fighting against.
> > Our whole way of life is blasphemous to what they are preaching. IMHO.
>
>Hi Grant,
>
>IMO and I always start from within an individualistic POV, Muslim
>youngsters ( and not only those) do have problems with the future
>spelled out before them as to be a proces wherein they are part of
>some obscur global program ( generalised as it was of US or European
>making), after that their expectations, dreams, usefullness, etc were
>reduced to some practial artifact for a/ some greater good.
>You loose out again and again all of your personal and particular
>points of your being... personality, dreams, needs, ideals,...are not
>counted in because those are not important.
>
>This makes some, not all, angry and frustrated. They want to do some-
>thing, they wanna be somebody, they don 't wanna be manipulated,
>neither be supported or represented. They all demand recognition for
>their human dignity. The dissidents turn their back to society or worse,
>they turn their back to what in their eyes is the reason for the
>difficulties
>they encounter_ universities, intellectual activity, education, economics,
>and to what is supporting this.
>
>In many ways I think, due to the fact that religion is intertwined with
>all most all parts of society, including how to be an individual ( what
>they can 't be because their society is manipulated in many ways) that
>such socities are out of date.
>
>But, and that is the paradox of course, ( besides that religion is the
>bias for power) the defenders of such a system wish to believe that
>the manner by which their society is constructed corresponds with
>some law of nature ans thus that there is no reason for each and any
>change. True believers are sensible for people like bin Laden and
>others, the ones who want change are not heard due to the fact that
>the formers threats them with violence.
>
>IOW, you don 't have to be afraid of the Jews or black people, you
>have to be afraid of me, me the white guy who threates you with vio-
>lence if you dare to be in favour of equal rights. ( No intention here!!!)
>In ' Muslim ' terms, they don 't have to be afraid of us ( we want to
>believe we come in with all the good intentions we have), they have
>to be afraid of their imans, of god 's followers, of those true, authentic
>believers who threats them with violence ( and it don 't have to be
>physical) if they try to oppose ' the objective necessity ' to keep the
>society as it is.
>
>
For the Palestinians, some of whom are probably atheists or agnostics (I
dunno) the fear is hellbent Israeli soldiers with machine guns and tanks and
having their homes bulldozed and whether their homes will be soon
appropriated by Israeli settlers. If I had to grow up in this situation as a
Palestinian possibly being born into a refugee camp even, I'd be rather
ticked off too, especially if capitalized upon by militants spewing
propaganda.
In the U.S. we have had similar situations with oppression of American
natives who had lands taken from them and African natives having their
freedom taken from them to toil under the oppression of some lazy plantation
owner. There are African Americans irate over the horrors of history and
continuing discrimination. For Palestinians the horrors are happening as we
speak.
I cannot condone suicide bombing or anti-Semitism and covenants that seek to
destroy Israel, but OTOH the rabid means by which Israel has carried out its
systematic oppression of Palestinians is intolerable. Sharon et al seem to
have set whatever peace process may have previously existed way back.
But, being from the U.S. all the Israelis need do is point to our nasty
history and that pretty much squelches our righteous indignation, doesn't
it? Heck the whole world specializes in pointing their collective (middle?)
fingers at U.S. Plus if one looks at it from the POV of people who suffered
the Holocaust and who are picturing unfriendly neighbors ready to march them
into the water when push comes to shove, things get a bit grey.
Maybe that's all it amounts to is multilateral (mis)perception coupled with
a struggle for resources like land and WATER.
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