Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id TAA19348 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 20 May 2000 19:39:50 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01bfc28e$4cecdfc0$150fbed4@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: "memetics" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: Fw: Central questions of memetics/ Lawrence 2 Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 21:01:26 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lawrence H. de Bivort <debivort@umd5.umd.edu>
> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 5:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Central questions of memetics
On Sat, 13 May 2000, Kenneth Van Oost wrote:
I am maybe rightly just an individualist because there were far too few
words
said to point my place as a subject. My parents died when I was a young
boy, therefor many words which must have been spoken out to build up my
identity have been lost. I' ve developped over against the world I live
in an insufficient " identity ". Sock colour is of no importance to me.
<<Has the lack of parentally-given identity allowed me to create a strong
identity that now provides me with more relevance to the world than I
would have had from a parentally-given identity !? >>
Strange question ! I don't know for sure, I will never know do I !?
And if my parents would have lived till today, I suppose we would never
had this conversation !?
But seriously, I said it in the first part of this message, I think the
identity I have is more ' mine '.
In that respect, I believe the identity you think you have is something what
is thrown upon you by the environment you live in; are born with.
Your identity is more ' moulted ' by your education; social class_ in a
sense the environment has taking away the opportunity to create your own
memes, your meme-space was constantly filled up with others.
( This is possible an angle of incidence into the search of autism.)
But, I suppose you are right saying that my identity is stronger, I have a
high self-esteem; I am proud of myself; I live by a high rank of self-
responsibility and I get very upset when other don't.
But I understand their ' reasons ', therefor my laborious indifference
with their today problems. I solidaize with the poor; the needy and
with those who are hungry and thirsty but I have no sympathy for
those who waste money, are indolent and are selfish.
I am stronger in that perspective that my fate have strengthed me.
You may think I have a trauma (and this is some kind of therapy)
but I have none !
A trauma is some not-existing thing for me.
In my viewpoint a trauma arises when the mind has no feedback/
no representation of the event which he is supposing to clearify.
(Therefor, the psychological aid to relive the event for a better
healing process is a good one, your mind plugs into the information
and has then a very good idea what the problems are about.)
Why !? Because, our mind is so full with useless memes, they are
things about behavior, how to act, how to react,...all of them are
tied to our social intercourse:- be polite, be friendly, be tolerant,
.....etc, but our mind has no recall what to do when out parents die
when we are young !!
Of course, you can argue, and myself, where did my mind found
the info on which he knew to react in order to let me survive !?
Remerber the question of the neurlogical representations are very
important to me (and to the concept of memetics as a whole, that's
for sure) _but I believe it has something to do with my familytree.
My father was the youngest son of a very proud ( ' strong ' ) man.
My father inherited those characteristics, not only the genetical ones
but also the memetical. He made them stronger, strenghten them up
and gave them eventually to me.
I think my mind is capable of coping with extreme situations, because
he was already strong on feedback. My fathers and grandfathers
situation was not the same as mine but my mind had already the
necessary neurological guidelines on which info could travel.
You may say that I have the ' feeling ' that my memes have me more
than I have them.
Of course, the question of ' Self ' arise here, and well do!
Do I have the same ' Self ' as you do, and if not, what is yours and
what is mine !?
What could be the difference between a ' Self ' of a group-member
( an individual) which I suppose you are and the one of an individua-
list !?
If your identity is stipulated by the environment you live in, by the words
which has been spoken out to build it up, how do you explain your
feeling of ' Self ' !? With all do respect, it is not yours ! The memes
which make up the memeplex ' Self ' are (re)-fabricated. To be a real
individual you have, in some sense, to betray your environmental back-
ground.
I from my side of the fence have to betray anything, I have nothing to
be betray exept maybe myself, but the strong feeling I have about my-
self is preventing this. So, my logical conclusion will be that the ' Self '
we both have is ' the same ', but I have a stronger feeling about it.
My memeplex of ' Self ' has literally put itself forward.
All what I do, did or will do is due to that fact, or in a memetical way
due to the fact that the memes have to add each time more usefullness
into their conduct, not only to let me survive but also to propagate them-
selves.
End of part two.
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