Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id QAA25042 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:18:22 GMT Message-ID: <570E2BEE7BC5A34684EE5914FCFC368C10FB9E@fillan> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Rumsfeld Says He May Drop New Office of Influence Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:12:15 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Filter-Info: UoS MailScan 0.1 [D 1] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>>I don't believe I actually did any name-calling, only expressed
the
>>view that there is a tendency to over-celebrate indigenous peoples
out of
>>guilt over past atrocities committed against them.
<Vincent
> The above sentence contains the intimation that those who would espouse
> the
> rights of indigenous Australians are guilt ridden, bleeding-hearted
> do-gooders (all derogatory terms in my country).>
>
I didn't say 'bleeding-hearted' or 'do-gooders', I simply indicated
that the judging of peoples due to historically generated guilt is
problematic.
>> But that doesn't allow one to view peoples with rose-tinted
glasses.
<Ah, rose-tinted glasses, does not this call the wearer of such
naively stupid?>
No. I don't think people who do this are naive or stupid, only that
they are interpreting peoples in an emotionally biased way, which is
problematic.
<And here's the old meme that promulgates the nonsense that
'writing' is the
> only form of reliably recording history (I won't go into the numerous
> contrary examples).>
>
I didn't say that, only that oral tradition is problematic which it
is.
<Besides the oral evidence, which includes a virulent
> mythscape and an oral tradition which is arguably more reliable than the
> manipulated and subjective texts on which we modern folk place so much
> trust, there is an historical record of great antiquity in cave art.>
>
You don't think accounts passed down from person to person through
oral communication are subjective?
< In the literature I have read, and in the seminars, programs and
discussions I
> have heard and/or participated in, I have heard no serious suggestion that
> mindless masacre of people occurred in this country before European
> invasion.>
>
Who said anything about 'mindless' masscres? I'm talking about
sytematic territorial disputes that have historically occurred in all human
societies. You're adding emotional emphasis to my points that are not
there, or intended.
<If you would like to see Cpt. Cook's and Govenor Philip's orders go
to
> foundingdocs.gov.au , and for comment on the existing International Law of
> the time look for Blackstone's commentaries of 1740 or thereabouts (this
> is
> not the title but if you search your libraries DB I'm sure that you will
> find it.>
>
I'm not disputing what the colonists did- there's a record of it for
a start.
<The appeal is not so much that I, or they for that matter, would
like to
> revert to an ancient way of life, it is more that they were not suicidal
> in
> the way that we modern industrial-age products are. Each society is
> different in many ways of course and I will not be drawn further into
> generalisations.>
>
You contradict yourself a little here.
<Ah Vincent, at least I can find one sentence with which I can
agree.
> Yours - stirred but not shaken
> Jeremy>
>
As I originally said, I wasn't attempting to annoy anyone, not
deliberately anyway.
Vincent
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
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