Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id MAA20665 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:37:14 GMT Message-ID: <570E2BEE7BC5A34684EE5914FCFC368C10FB98@fillan> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Rumsfeld Says He May Drop New Office of Influence Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:31:19 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Filter-Info: UoS MailScan 0.1 [D 1] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
<<Grant:
> Even the laws of most countries make allowances for people when they
> defend
> "my home, my family, my children, my beliefs, my property." If you shoot a
>
> stranger on the street, you go to jail for murder. If you shoot a stranger
>
> in your home or while they are attacking your children, or your person, it
>
> is called self defense and not prosecuted. There are no limits to what I
> can do in defense of what is "mine.">>
>
<Derek:
> On the contrary, what you describe is virtually uinique to the USA. Both
> Ecuador and the UK (where I have some personal experience) would put you
> behind bars for a very long time if you shoot somebody just because they
> are intruders on your property. The situation in the USA is a historical
> relic of the time when cowboys had to forcibly clear stray indians off
> their ranches. The law had to be made so that they could do this without
> ending up in court every other day. It's a historical accident, not a
> cultural universal.>
>
Very true, although that case in the UK a year or two ago (The
Martin case was it?) suggested that at least some proportion of the
population felt that it should be legitimate (although not me- shooting an
unarmed teenager in the back as they were trying to get out of the property
is not self-defence to my mind).
I think Grant's wider point about territoriality is basically right.
I don't want to stir up the Aussies on the list, but there seems to be two
diametrically opposite views about aboriginals in Oz, either the traditional
colonial one of disdain and control (evidenced by Prince Phillip's spear
throwing comments the other day- oh we Brits are so proud...), or a
guilt-ridden over-celebration and over-estimation of their culture and
capabilities (a bit like those pro-native americans who refuse to accept
that the Anasazi might have been ritualistic cannibals as the archeology
strongly suggests).
Vincent
-- The University of Stirling is a university established in Scotland by charter at Stirling, FK9 4LA. Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not disclose, copy or deliver this message to anyone and any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of the University of Stirling shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it.=============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Tue Mar 05 2002 - 12:47:29 GMT