Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id PAA05918 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 27 Feb 2002 15:40:53 GMT From: "Lawrence DeBivort" <debivort@umd5.umd.edu> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Rumsfeld Says He May Drop New Office of Influence Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 08:46:28 -0500 Message-ID: <NEBBKOADILIOKGDJLPMAKEBBCMAA.debivort@umd5.umd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <F287CT4aJ6pkNzPZrIk00001a88@hotmail.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Hi, Scott, I don't have time to repeat the several longish emails I have
posted over the last months on US response to Sept. 11, so I ask you to run
those down in the archives if you are interested in a fuller response to
your questions and statements.
In brief summarization: the US should have treated Sept 11 as a criminal
matter, not one of "war", taken the Afghan gov't up on its offer to
extradite bin Laden, after providing an indictment (standard extradition
procedure), tried him as we did the attackers of the WTC a few years ago and
more recent US embassy bombings. The US should have carried a few
target-hardening procedures, rather than embrace 'for-show-only' fake but
highly visible security measures. The US should, and may still yet, turn the
WTC site into a memorial that will stress our values of democracy, social
responsibility, tolerance and optimism. And the US should have initiated
well-crafted interactions and dialogue with cultures and countries whence
the WTC attackers sprung. In other words, we should be demonstrating the
qualities that have made America admired around the world, and not those
that, along with some other international policies, are earning us contempt,
arousing fear, and confirming suspicions that the US is turning into a
lone-dog and unaccountable country.
Lawrence
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of Scott Chase
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 10:47 PM
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: Rumsfeld Says He May Drop New Office of Influence
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Wade Smith <wade_smith@harvard.edu>
> >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >Subject: Re: Rumsfeld Says He May Drop New Office of Influence
> >Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:40:07 -0500
> >
> >On Tuesday, February 26, 2002, at 01:39 , Lawrence DeBivort wrote:
> >
> >>what we are doing - Afghanistan, "war on terrorism" language,
> >>Ashcroft legal actions, emphasis on hardening US targets rather than
> >>defusing terrorist motivation -- all of this is stupid and ineffective.
> >
> >Can you point to an _unstupid_ national policy and actions,
> >anywhere in the world? We all want enlightened leaders, but
> >really, I personally don't know of any government anywhere that
> >is a shining example of non-stupidity.
> >
> >And I'm _not_ trying to wave any flags.
> >
> >
> I'd like to hear a viable alternative to US military action in
> Afghanistan,
> especially given the historic circumstances of 9/11. Are the doves silent
> when it comes down to this, once they've whined about the
> stupidity of going
> after the terrorists in their backyard?
>
> Afghanistan has been a smashing success so far, al-Quaeda and
> Taliban sent
> scurrying into the darkness realizing they bit off way more than
> they could
> chew. We've also gotten some decent intelligence on their networks from
> surveying the abandoned complexes and from the detainees at Camp X-ray.
>
> What remains is whether a decent gov't can be established in
> Afghanistan and
> whether they can get over their ethnic discord and become a
> nation. We don't
> have any control over their feelings for eachother.
>
> It was realized that Afghanistan would not be the end-all of the war on
> terrorism, so more action remains to be taken, wherever that may wind up
> being. AFAICT bin Laden's plight is uncertain. His
> existence/non-existence
> should not serve as a barometer of success. I might not like
> Bush's views on
> taxes or social issues and I might have reservations about the
> Enron debacle
> (esp. with the GAO going after Cheney), but at least Bush ain't
> one to play
> ostrich when it comes to getting serious in the trenches and
> crushing the
> terrorists.
>
> Now how are we supposed to defuse the terrorist motivation? A
> peacefest with
> bands and flowers? I'm not a fan of Sharon and would like to see
> Palestinians get some degree of self-governance, statehood and
> respect, but
> it seems that nothing short of eliminating the state of Israel
> would satisfy
> the terrorists. I can't go for that.
>
> I don't have any flags to wave.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
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