Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id MAA05290 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:02:44 GMT Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3102A6D29F@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Rumsfeld Says He May Drop New Office of Influence Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:52:52 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Filter-Info: UoS MailScan 0.1 [D 1] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
<I'd like to hear a viable alternative to US military action in
Afghanistan,
> especially given the historic circumstances of 9/11. Are the doves silent
> when it comes down to this, once they've whined about the stupidity of
> going
> after the terrorists in their backyard?>
>
An alternative that involves not killing UN aid workers (or
arresting them as suspects), not bombing red cross buildings with bloody
great red cross signs on the roof, not (as the Brit paras allegedly did)
shooting people taking their pregnant wife to hospital.
<Afghanistan has been a smashing success so far, al-Quaeda and
Taliban sent
> scurrying into the darkness realizing they bit off way more than they
> could
> chew.>
>
How many months now, and where is bin Laden? Lots of Afghans have
been killed, including some the US have admitted weren't al-qaeda or
taliban, and whose families received $1000 dollars compensation (whilst
families from the WTC are sueing for $70 million I believe... Western lvies
worth more I see).
<We've also gotten some decent intelligence on their networks from
> surveying the abandoned complexes and from the detainees at Camp X-ray.>
>
Ah you mean the drugged, and shackled prisoners of war? Anyone in
the States wondering why the EU has gone cold on the US policy, should take
a long look at that.
<It was realized that Afghanistan would not be the end-all of the
war on
> terrorism, so more action remains to be taken, wherever that may wind up
> being. AFAICT bin Laden's plight is uncertain. His
> existence/non-existence
> should not serve as a barometer of success.>
>
Hmm... apart from the fact that he's the number one suspect. That's
a bit like saying oh we won WWII, and hitler getting away doesn't really
matter.
<I might not like Bush's views on taxes or social issues and I might
have reservations about the Enron debacle (esp. with the GAO going after
Cheney), but at least Bush ain't one to play ostrich when it comes to
getting serious in the trenches and crushing the
> terrorists.>
>
I think this is wishful thinking. The whole point about terrorism,
as people in the UK will attest after 30 odd years of N.Ireland troubles, is
that catching people doesn't stop the terrorism, it helps perpetuate it.
Deal with the reasons behind antipathy and maybe it'll stop. Going back
aways, look at the Declaration of Arbroath, where Scots asserted their
rights by stating that as long as 100 of them survived they would oppose
being slaves to the English. Force will always be met with resistence until
either one side capitulates (or is annihilated), or someone comes to their
senses.
<Now how are we supposed to defuse the terrorist motivation?>
See above. Arbitratily bombing other countries the US government
doesn't like is not the way forward.
Vincent
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