Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id XAA03327 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 26 Feb 2002 23:19:35 GMT From: "Lawrence DeBivort" <debivort@umd5.umd.edu> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Rumsfeld Says He May Drop New Office of Influence Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:29:01 -0500 Message-ID: <NEBBKOADILIOKGDJLPMAOEAGCMAA.debivort@umd5.umd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020226164241.02d40af8@localhost> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Hi Joachim, thanks for the clarification. I'm not sure who the opponent is
that you have in mind. The administration is not my opponent; indeed various
organizations within the federal government are clients, and I have a great
deal of respect for them, their motives, and their efforts. Lots of smart
people there too, and hard working.
The 'stupid' appelation is tied to Sept 11 responses, and is a conclusion
that I have been forced to reach from observing language and the analysis
that is being done. I do think that the Sept 11 crisis has brought out the
worst of analytic. There is considerable undercurrent of re-thinking the
post Sept 11 response, and some of it is showing up in the form of
counter-memes. The most obviously vulnerable of the administration's memes
are now being attacked, and more will follow. In my view, the time has
come, indeed, is long overdue, for a thoughtful discussion, within the
administration, on the nature of terrorism, the effectiveness of our
policies, relations not only with Muslims but with the entire developing
world, relations with Europe, and the nature of our society. My hope is to
encourage this discussion. I do vent my frustration here, I know, and I
appreciate everyone's patience with this. I don't have too many other places
where I can talk freely, or look to for such high quality feedback and
debate.
And yes, I do think our efforts, whether we are in or out of government,
should be orinted toward betterment of the human condition. I'm not
interested in anything else.
Lawrence
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of Joachim Maier
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 5:19 PM
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: Rumsfeld Says He May Drop New Office of Influence
>
>
> Lawrence,
> Because it under-estimates your opponent. Because I think I can hear some
> anger or disgust out of your words, and I think in a political
> environment
> it's a disadvantage to act out of emotion. (this does not necessary mean
> you can't act emotional).
> I also think that implied in your statement is the notion that
> the goal of
> politics is the betterment of a situation. It would be nice if it
> were, but
> it is only to govern a situation.
> I wonder if a stupid (meaning slow in learning and understanding)
> political
> entity could stay in power for a long time. Then there should
> easily evolve
> a less stupid political opposition which could outmaneuver and
> replace the
> stupid entity.
> Joachim
>
>
> At 01:39 PM 2/26/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> >Well, 'better' he did, but that does not raise his performance to an
> >adequate level. He did better, in terms of image: the policies
> he adopted
> >are, and will prove to be, disasterous, for many reasons, some of which I
> >have explained in earlier postings to this list. I would add
> the death of
> >Daniel Pearl (a fellow alumnus); the failure to secure bin
> Laden; the recent
> >moves of the Israelis against the Palestinians along with Sharon's
> >'solution'; the proposed US defense budget; the loss of support for US
> >policies in Europe; Rmsfeld's Office of "Strategic Information"
> fiasco; and
> >rumblings in Egypt, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia as exhibits of the
> >consequences of these policies. With, I suspect, a lot more to come.
> >
> >I do use the term 'stupid' in its technical sense, and can
> explore that, if
> >you wish. I do apply it to the adminsitration, rather than to Bush
> >personally: what we are doing - Afghanistan, "war on terrorism" language,
> >Ashcroft legal actions, emphasis on hardening US targets rather than
> >defusing terrorist motivation -- all of this is stupid and
> ineffective. And
> >horribly costly.
> >
> >Now: why do you think that saying this is dangerous? Or
> counter-productive?
> >I am intrigued and worried by your thought that it might be.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Lawrence
> >
> >
> > > >The depths of the raw stupidity we are seeing from the
> administration is
> > > >frightening.
> > > >
> > > >Lawrence
> > >
> > > Lawrence, as much as I can understand your frustration, I think it is
> > > dangerous and counterproductive, to call the administration stupid.
> > > Bush did so much better as a candidate and as the president than many
> > > people expected, because it was easy for him to show himself in
> > > much better
> > > light than public opinion granted him
> > >
> > > Joachim
> > >
> >
> >
> >===============================================================
> >This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> >Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> >For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> >see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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