Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id VAA02044 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 12 May 2000 21:38:27 +0100 Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:39:10 -0700 From: Bill Spight <bspight@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: Fwd: Did language drive society or vice versa? To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Message-id: <391C4FCE.8CEEAA2@pacbell.net> Organization: Saybrook Graduate School X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-PBI-NC404 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: ja,en References: <20000511200148.AAA25731%camailp.harvard.edu@[128.103.125.215]> Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Dear Wade,
> But the advent of language _is_ a distinction.
>
> What _will_ we do with that?
I was an undergraduate when the question of whether other animals
have language was being hotly debated. At first it was said that
animals had signs and signals, but not symbols, and symbols were
what defined language. Later it was admitted that some animals
had symbols, but they could not combine symbols, and the
combination of symbols defined language. Gradually the defenders
of the idea that language is unique to humans gave ground, but
redefined language at each step. To me the whole exercise was
theological, like the question of whether animals have souls.
Today the debate is less heated, and the facts are somewhat
clearer. Human communication is vastly different from that of
other species, but some of them are capable of much more
sophisticated communication than was originally supposed. That is
what is important, isn't it? Not what we want to call language.
Similar debates occur about whether animals have memes. I think
that this is a side track that is just as fruitless as the debate
about animal language. It is a question of definition, ultimately
undecidable, and not worth the trouble.
Best,
Bill
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